Plato · Alcibiades I · 103a–135e
Alcibiades I: Know Yourself
Ἀλκιβιάδης α
- ΣΩ.,,,.,,.
Readers through the ages · 17
Proclus the opening of the commentary; Creuzer p. 1 · on 103a
Proclus the place of the dialogue in Iamblichus' course; Creuzer p. 11 · on 103a
Olympiodorus lecture 1, on the order of reading; Creuzer pp. 10–11 · on 103a
Anonymous Prolegomena to Platonic philosophy ch. 26 (Hermann's XXVI), on the order of the dialogues; p. 219 · on 103a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 18; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 53) · on 103a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 53; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 59) · on 103a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 59; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 93) · on 103a
Olympiodorus prologue (lectures 1–2: the life of Plato, the aim and place of the dialogue); Creuzer pp. 1–9 · on 103a
Olympiodorus lecture 2, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 9–13 · on 103a
Olympiodorus lecture 3, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 13 · on 103a–103b
Olympiodorus lecture 3, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 13 · on 103a
Olympiodorus lecture 3, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 13–14 · on 103a
Olympiodorus lecture 3, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 14–25 · on 103a
Olympiodorus lecture 3, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 25–26 · on 103a
Olympiodorus lecture 3, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 26–27 · on 103a
Ibn Abī Uṣaybiʿa the books of Plato · on 103a
Ibn al-Nadīm the list of Plato's works 'as Theon gave and ordered it' · on 103a
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Readers through the ages · 9
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 93; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 94) · on 103b
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 94; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 100) · on 103b
Olympiodorus lecture 3, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 27–28 · on 103b
Olympiodorus lecture 3, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 28 · on 103b
Olympiodorus lecture 4, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 28–33 · on 103b–104c
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 33–34 · on 103b
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 34 · on 103b
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 34 · on 103b–104a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 3, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 13 (from 103a)
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Readers through the ages · 9
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 100; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 101) · on 104a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 101; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 120) · on 104a
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 34–35 · on 104a
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 35 · on 104a
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 35 · on 104a
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 35 · on 104a
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 35–36 · on 104a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 4, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 28–33 (from 103b) · Olympiodorus, lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 34 (from 103b)
- ,,.,·,.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 36 · on 104b
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 36 · on 104b
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 36–37 · on 104b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 4, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 28–33 (from 103b)
πλουσίων· δοκεῖς δέ μοι ἐπὶ τούτῳ ἥκιστα μέγα φρονεῖν. κατὰ πάντα δὴ ταῦτα σύ τε μεγαλαυχούμενος κεκράτηκας τῶν ἐραστῶν ἐκεῖνοί τε ὑποδεέστεροι ὄντες ἐκρατήθησαν, καί σε ταῦτʼ οὐ λέληθεν· ὅθεν δὴ εὖ οἶδα ὅτι θαυμάζεις τί διανοούμενός ποτε οὐκ ἀπαλλάττομαι τοῦ ἔρωτος, καὶ ἥντινʼ ἔχων ἐλπίδα ὑπομένω τῶν ἄλλων πεφευγότων.
ΑΛ.καὶ ἴσως γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐκ οἶσθʼ ὅτι σμικρόν
Readers through the ages · 9
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 120; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 127) · on 104c
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 120; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 127) · on 104c–104d
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 37 · on 104c
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 37 · on 104c
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 37 · on 104c
Olympiodorus lecture 4, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 37 · on 104c
Olympiodorus lecture 5, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 37–46 · on 104c–105c
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 46 · on 104c–104d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 4, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 28–33 (from 103b)
με ἔφθης. ἐγὼ γάρ τοι ἐν νῷ εἶχον πρότερός σοι προσελθὼν αὐτὰ ταῦτʼ ἐρέσθαι, τί ποτε βούλει καὶ εἰς τίνα ἐλπίδα βλέπων ἐνοχλεῖς με, ἀεὶ ὅπου ἂν ὦ ἐπιμελέστατα παρών· τῷ ὄντι γὰρ θαυμάζω ὅτι ποτʼ ἐστὶ τὸ σὸν πρᾶγμα, καὶ ἥδιστʼ ἂν πυθοίμην.
ΣΩ.ἀκούσῃ μὲν ἄρα μου, ὡς τὸ εἰκός, προθύμως, εἴπερ, ὡς φῄς, ἐπιθυμεῖς εἰδέναι τί διανοοῦμαι, καὶ ὡς ἀκουσομένῳ καὶ περιμενοῦντι λέγω.
ΑΛ.πάνυ μὲν οὖν· ἀλλὰ λέγε.
Readers through the ages · 14
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 127; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 128) · on 104d–104e
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 128; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 140) · on 104d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 128; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 140) · on 104d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 128; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 140) · on 104d
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 46 · on 104d
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 46 · on 104d
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 46 · on 104d
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 46–47 · on 104d
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 47 · on 104d
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 47 · on 104d
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 47 · on 104d–104e
Also on this section: Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 120; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 127) (from 104c) · Olympiodorus, lecture 5, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 37–46 (from 104c) · Olympiodorus, lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 46 (from 104c)
ΣΩ.ὅρα δή· οὐ γάρ τοι εἴη ἂν θαυμαστὸν εἰ, ὥσπερ μόγις ἠρξάμην, οὕτω μόγις καὶ παυσαίμην.
ΑΛ.ὠγαθὲ λέγε· ἀκούσομαι γάρ.
ΣΩ.λεκτέον ἂν εἴη. χαλεπὸν μὲν οὖν πρὸς ἄνδρα οὐχ ἥττονα ἐραστῶν προσφέρεσθαι ἐραστῇ, ὅμως δὲ τολμητέον φράσαι τὴν ἐμὴν διάνοιαν. ἐγὼ γάρ, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, εἰ μέν σε ἑώρων ἃ νυνδὴ διῆλθον ἀγαπῶντα καὶ οἰόμενον δεῖν ἐν τούτοις καταβιῶναι, πάλαι ἂν ἀπηλλάγμην τοῦ ἔρωτος, ὥς
Readers through the ages · 10
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 47 · on 104e
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 47–48 · on 104e
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 48 · on 104e
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 48 · on 104e
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 48 · on 104e
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 48–49 · on 104e
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 49 · on 104e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 5, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 37–46 (from 104c) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 127; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 128) (from 104d) · Olympiodorus, lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 47 (from 104d)
γε δὴ ἐμαυτὸν πείθω· νῦν δʼ ἕτερʼ αὖ κατηγορήσω διανοήματα σὰ πρὸς αὐτὸν σέ, ᾧ καὶ γνώσῃ ὅτι προσέχων γέ σοι τὸν νοῦν διατετέλεκα. δοκεῖς γάρ μοι, εἴ τίς σοι εἴποι θεῶν· "ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, πότερον βούλει ζῆν ἔχων ἃ νῦν ἔχεις, ἢ αὐτίκα τεθνάναι εἰ μή σοι ἐξέσται μείζω κτήσασθαι "; δοκεῖς ἄν μοι ἑλέσθαι τεθνάναι· ἀλλὰ νῦν ἐπὶ τίνι δή ποτε ἐλπίδι ζῇς, ἐγὼ φράσω. ἡγῇ, ἐὰν θᾶττον εἰς τὸν Ἀθηναίων
Readers through the ages · 11
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 140; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 145) · on 105a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 140; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 145) · on 105a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 140; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 145) · on 105a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 145; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 146) · on 105a–105b
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 49 · on 105a
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 49 · on 105a
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 49 · on 105a
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 49 · on 105a
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 49–50 · on 105a
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 50 · on 105a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 5, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 37–46 (from 104c)
δῆμον παρέλθῃς—τοῦτο δʼ ἔσεσθαι μάλα ὀλίγων ἡμερῶν—παρελθὼν οὖν ἐνδείξεσθαι Ἀθηναίοις ὅτι ἄξιος εἶ τιμᾶσθαι ὡς οὔτε Περικλῆς οὔτʼ ἄλλος οὐδεὶς τῶν πώποτε γενομένων, καὶ τοῦτʼ ἐνδειξάμενος μέγιστον δυνήσεσθαι ἐν τῇ πόλει, ἐὰν δʼ ἐνθάδε μέγιστος ᾖς, καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις Ἕλλησι, καὶ οὐ μόνον ἐν Ἕλλησιν, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐν τοῖς βαρβάροις, ὅσοι ἐν τῇ αὐτῇ ἡμῖν οἰκοῦσιν ἠπείρῳ. καὶ εἰ αὖ σοι εἴποι ὁ αὐτὸς οὗτος θεὸς ὅτι αὐτοῦ σε δεῖ δυναστεύειν ἐν τῇ Εὐρώπῃ,
Readers through the ages · 9
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 146; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 149) · on 105b
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 149; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 157) · on 105b–105c
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 50 · on 105b
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 50 · on 105b
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 50 · on 105b
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 50–51 · on 105b
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 51 · on 105b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 5, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 37–46 (from 104c) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 145; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 146) (from 105a)
διαβῆναι δὲ εἰς τὴν Ἀσίαν οὐκ ἐξέσται σοι οὐδὲ ἐπιθέσθαι τοῖς ἐκεῖ πράγμασιν, οὐκ ἂν αὖ μοι δοκεῖς ἐθέλειν οὐδʼ ἐπὶ τούτοις μόνοις ζῆν, εἰ μὴ ἐμπλήσεις τοῦ σοῦ ὀνόματος καὶ τῆς σῆς δυνάμεως πάντας ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν ἀνθρώπους· καὶ οἶμαί σε πλὴν Κύρου καὶ Ξέρξου ἡγεῖσθαι οὐδένα ἄξιον λόγου γεγονέναι. ὅτι μὲν οὖν ἔχεις ταύτην τὴν ἐλπίδα, εὖ οἶδα καὶ οὐκ εἰκάζω. ἴσως ἂν οὖν εἴποις, ἅτε εἰδὼς ὅτι ἀληθῆ λέγω, "τί δὴ οὖν, ὦ Σώκρατες, τοῦτʼ ἐστί σοι πρὸς
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 51 · on 105c
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 51 · on 105c
Olympiodorus lecture 5, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 52 · on 105c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 5, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 37–46 (from 104c) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 149; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 157) (from 105b)
λόγον; [ὃν] [ἔφησθα] [ἐρεῖν] [διὸ] [ἐμοῦ] [οὐκ] [ἀπαλλάττῃ] "ἐγὼ δὲ σοί γε ἐρῶ, ὦ φίλε παῖ Κλεινίου καὶ Δεινομάχης. τούτων γάρ σοι ἁπάντων τῶν διανοημάτων τέλος ἐπιτεθῆναι ἄνευ ἐμοῦ ἀδύνατον· τοσαύτην ἐγὼ δύναμιν οἶμαι ἔχειν εἰς τὰ σὰ πράγματα καὶ εἰς σέ, διὸ δὴ καὶ πάλαι οἴομαί με τὸν θεὸν οὐκ ἐᾶν διαλέγεσθαί σοι, ὃν ἐγὼ περιέμενον ὁπηνίκα ἐάσει. ὥσπερ γὰρ σὺ ἐλπίδας ἔχεις ἐν τῇ πόλει ἐνδείξασθαι ὅτι
Readers through the ages · 7
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 157; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 158) · on 105d
Olympiodorus lecture 6, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 52–57 · on 105d–106c
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 57 · on 105d
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 57 · on 105d
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 57 · on 105d
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 57–58 · on 105d
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 58 · on 105d
αὐτῇ παντὸς ἄξιος εἶ, ἐνδειξάμενος δὲ [ὅτι] οὐδὲν ὅτι οὐ παραυτίκα δυνήσεσθαι, οὕτω κἀγὼ παρὰ σοὶ ἐλπίζω μέγιστον δυνήσεσθαι ἐνδειξάμενος ὅτι παντὸς ἄξιός εἰμί σοι καὶ οὔτε ἐπίτροπος οὔτε συγγενὴς οὔτʼ ἄλλος οὐδεὶς ἱκανὸς παραδοῦναι τὴν δύναμιν ἧς ἐπιθυμεῖς πλὴν ἐμοῦ, μετὰ τοῦ θεοῦ μέντοι. νεωτέρῳ μὲν οὖν ὄντι σοι καὶ πρὶν τοσαύτης ἐλπίδος γέμειν, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, οὐκ εἴα ὁ θεὸς διαλέγεσθαι, ἵνα μὴ μάτην
Readers through the ages · 7
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 158; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 162) · on 105e
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 162; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 163) · on 105e
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 162; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 163) · on 105e–106a
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 58 · on 105e
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 58 · on 105e
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 58–59 · on 105e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 6, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 52–57 (from 105d)
διαλεγοίμην. νῦν δʼ ἐφῆκεν· νῦν γὰρ ἄν μου ἀκούσαις.
ΑΛ.πολύ γέ μοι, ὦ Σώκρατες, νῦν ἀτοπώτερος αὖ φαίνῃ, ἐπειδὴ ἤρξω λέγειν, ἢ ὅτε σιγῶν εἵπου· καίτοι σφόδρα γε ἦσθʼ ἰδεῖν καὶ τότε τοιοῦτος. εἰ μὲν οὖν ἐγὼ ταῦτα διανοοῦμαι ἢ μή, ὡς ἔοικε, διέγνωκας, καὶ ἐὰν μὴ φῶ, οὐδέν μοι ἔσται πλέον πρὸς τὸ πείθειν σε. εἶεν· εἰ δὲ δὴ ὅτι μάλιστα ταῦτα διανενόημαι, πῶς διὰ σοῦ μοι ἔσται καὶ ἄνευ σοῦ οὐκ ἂν γένοιτο; ἔχεις λέγειν;
Readers through the ages · 10
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 163; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 169) · on 106a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 169; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 173) · on 106a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 169; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 173) · on 106a
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 59 · on 106a
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 59 · on 106a
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 59–60 · on 106a
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 60 · on 106a
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 60 · on 106a–106b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 6, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 52–57 (from 105d) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 162; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 163) (from 105e)
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ ἐρωτᾷς εἴ τινʼ ἔχω εἰπεῖν λόγον μακρόν, οἵους δὴ ἀκούειν εἴθισαι; οὐ γάρ ἐστι τοιοῦτον τὸ ἐμόν· ἀλλʼ ἐνδείξασθαι μέν σοι, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι, οἷός τʼ ἂν εἴην ὅτι ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχει, ἐὰν ἓν μόνον μοι ἐθελήσῃς βραχὺ ὑπηρετῆσαι.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ εἴ γε δὴ μὴ χαλεπόν τι λέγεις τὸ ὑπηρέτημα, ἐθέλω.
ΣΩ.ἦ χαλεπὸν δοκεῖ τὸ ἀποκρίνασθαι τὰ ἐρωτώμενα;
ΑΛ.οὐ χαλεπόν.
ΣΩ.ἀποκρίνου δή.
ΑΛ.ἐρώτα.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὡς διανοουμένου σου ταῦτα ἐρωτῶ, ἅ φημί σε
Readers through the ages · 12
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 173; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 181) · on 106b
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 173; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 181) · on 106b
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 173; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 181) · on 106b
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 60 · on 106b
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 60–61 · on 106b
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 61 · on 106b
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 61 · on 106b
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 61–62 · on 106b
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 62 · on 106b
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 62 · on 106b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 6, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 52–57 (from 105d) · Olympiodorus, lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 60 (from 106a)
διανοεῖσθαι;
ΑΛ.ἔστω, εἰ βούλει, οὕτως, ἵνα καὶ εἰδῶ ὅτι καὶ ἐρεῖς.
ΣΩ.φέρε δή· διανοῇ γάρ, ὡς ἐγώ φημι, παριέναι συμβουλεύσων Ἀθηναίοις ἐντὸς οὐ πολλοῦ χρόνου· εἰ οὖν μέλλοντός σου ἰέναι ἐπὶ τὸ βῆμα λαβόμενος ἐροίμην· "ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, ἐπειδὴ περὶ τίνος Ἀθηναῖοι διανοοῦνται βουλεύεσθαι, ἀνίστασαι συμβουλεύσων; ἆρʼ ἐπειδὴ περὶ ὧν σὺ ἐπίστασαι βέλτιον ἢ οὗτοι "; τί ἂν ἀποκρίναιο;
Readers through the ages · 8
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 173; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 181) · on 106c
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 181; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 192) · on 106c–106d
Olympiodorus lecture 6, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 62 · on 106c
Olympiodorus lecture 7, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 62–67 · on 106c–107b
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 67 · on 106c
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 67 · on 106c
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 67 · on 106c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 6, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 52–57 (from 105d)
ΑΛ.εἴποιμʼ ἂν δήπου, περὶ ὧν οἶδα βέλτιον ἢ οὗτοι.
ΣΩ.περὶ ὧν ἄρʼ εἰδὼς τυγχάνεις, ἀγαθὸς σύμβουλος εἶ.
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ταῦτα μόνον οἶσθα, ἃ παρʼ ἄλλων ἔμαθες ἢ αὐτὸς ἐξηῦρες;
ΑΛ.ποῖα γὰρ ἄλλα;
ΣΩ.ἔστιν οὖν ὅπως ἄν ποτε ἔμαθές τι ἢ ἐξηῦρες μήτε μανθάνειν ἐθέλων μήτʼ αὐτὸς ζητεῖν;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔστιν.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; ἠθέλησας ἂν ζητῆσαι ἢ μαθεῖν ἃ ἐπίστασθαι ᾤου;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 67 · on 106d
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 67 · on 106d
Also on this section: Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 181; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 192) (from 106c) · Olympiodorus, lecture 7, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 62–67 (from 106c)
ΣΩ.ἃ ἄρα νῦν τυγχάνεις ἐπιστάμενος, ἦν χρόνος ὅτε οὐχ ἡγοῦ εἰδέναι;
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μὴν ἅ γε μεμάθηκας σχεδόν τι καὶ ἐγὼ οἶδα· εἰ δέ τι ἐμὲ λέληθεν, εἰπέ. ἔμαθες γὰρ δὴ σύ γε κατὰ μνήμην τὴν ἐμὴν γράμματα καὶ κιθαρίζειν καὶ παλαίειν· οὐ γὰρ δὴ αὐλεῖν γε ἤθελες μαθεῖν. ταῦτʼ ἐστὶν ἃ σὺ ἐπίστασαι, εἰ μή πού τι μανθάνων ἐμὲ λέληθας· οἶμαι δέ γε, οὔτε νύκτωρ οὔτε μεθʼ ἡμέραν ἐξιὼν ἔνδοθεν.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ οὐ πεφοίτηκα εἰς ἄλλων ἢ τούτων.
Readers through the ages · 6
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 192; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 199) · on 106e
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 67–68 · on 106e
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 68 · on 106e
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 68 · on 106e
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 68 · on 106e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 7, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 62–67 (from 106c)
ΣΩ.πότερον οὖν, ὅταν περὶ γραμμάτων Ἀθηναῖοι βουλεύωνται, πῶς ἂν ὀρθῶς γράφοιεν, τότε ἀναστήσῃ αὐτοῖς συμβουλεύσων;
ΑΛ.μὰ Δίʼ οὐκ ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ ὅταν περὶ κρουμάτων ἐν λύρᾳ;
ΑΛ.οὐδαμῶς.
ΣΩ.οὐδὲ μὴν οὐδὲ περὶ παλαισμάτων γε εἰώθασι βουλεύεσθαι ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ.
ΑΛ.οὐ μέντοι.
ΣΩ.ὅταν οὖν περὶ τίνος βουλεύωνται; οὐ γάρ που ὅταν γε περὶ οἰκοδομίας.
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.οἰκοδόμος γὰρ ταῦτά γε σοῦ βέλτιον συμβουλεύσει.
Readers through the ages · 5
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 199; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 204) · on 107a
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 68–69 · on 107a
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 69 · on 107a
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 69 · on 107a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 7, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 62–67 (from 106c)
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐδὲ μὴν ὅταν περὶ μαντικῆς βουλεύωνται;
ΑΛ.οὔ.
ΣΩ.μάντις γὰρ αὖ ταῦτα ἄμεινον ἢ σύ.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἐάν τέ γε σμικρὸς ἢ μέγας ᾖ, ἐάν τε καλὸς ἢ αἰσχρός, ἔτι τε γενναῖος ἢ ἀγεννής.
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.εἰδότος γὰρ οἶμαι περὶ ἑκάστου ἡ συμβουλή, καὶ οὐ πλουτοῦντος.
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ ἐάντε πένης ἐάντε πλούσιος ᾖ ὁ παραινῶν, οὐδὲν διοίσει Ἀθηναίοις ὅταν περὶ τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει βουλεύωνται,
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 69 · on 107b
Olympiodorus lecture 7, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 69–70 · on 107b
Olympiodorus lecture 8, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 70 · on 107b–108c
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 70 · on 107b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 7, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 62–67 (from 106c)
πῶς ἂν ὑγιαίνοιεν, ἀλλὰ ζητήσουσιν ἰατρὸν εἶναι τὸν σύμβουλον.
ΑΛ.εἰκότως γε.
ΣΩ.ὅταν οὖν περὶ τίνος σκοπῶνται, τότε σὺ ἀνιστάμενος ὡς συμβουλεύσων ὀρθῶς ἀναστήσῃ;
ΑΛ.ὅταν περὶ τῶν ἑαυτῶν πραγμάτων, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.τῶν περὶ ναυπηγίας λέγεις, ὁποίας τινὰς χρὴ αὐτοὺς τὰς ναῦς ναυπηγεῖσθαι;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔγωγε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.ναυπηγεῖν γὰρ οἶμαι οὐκ ἐπίστασαι. τοῦτʼ αἴτιον ἢ ἄλλο τι;
ΑΛ.οὔκ, ἀλλὰ τοῦτο.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 70–76 · on 107c
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 76 · on 107c
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 76 · on 107c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 8, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 70 (from 107b)
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ περὶ ποίων τῶν ἑαυτῶν λέγεις πραγμάτων ὅταν βουλεύωνται;
ΑΛ.ὅταν περὶ πολέμου, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἢ περὶ εἰρήνης ἢ ἄλλου του τῶν τῆς πόλεως πραγμάτων.
ΣΩ.ἆρα λέγεις ὅταν βουλεύωνται πρὸς τίνας χρὴ εἰρήνην ποιεῖσθαι καὶ τίσιν πολεμεῖν καὶ τίνα τρόπον;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.χρὴ δʼ οὐχ οἷς βέλτιον;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 76 · on 107d
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 76–77 · on 107d
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 77 · on 107d
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 77 · on 107d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 8, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 70 (from 107b)
ΣΩ.καὶ τόθʼ ὁπότε βέλτιον;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.καὶ τοσοῦτον χρόνον ὅσον ἄμεινον;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.εἰ οὖν βουλεύοιντο Ἀθηναῖοι τίσιν χρὴ προσπαλαίειν καὶ τίσιν ἀκροχειρίζεσθαι καὶ τίνα τρόπον, σὺ ἄμεινον ἂν συμβουλεύοις ἢ ὁ παιδοτρίβης;
ΑΛ.ὁ παιδοτρίβης δήπου.
ΣΩ.ἔχεις οὖν εἰπεῖν πρὸς τί ἂν βλέπων ὁ παιδοτρίβης συμβουλεύσειεν οἷς δεῖ προσπαλαίειν καὶ οἷς μή, καὶ ὁπότε καὶ ὅντινα τρόπον; λέγω δὲ τὸ τοιόνδε· ἆρα τούτοις δεῖ προσπαλαίειν οἷς βέλτιον, ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 8, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 70 (from 107b)
ΣΩ.ἆρα καὶ τοσαῦτα ὅσα ἄμεινον;
ΑΛ.τοσαῦτα.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ τότε ὅτε ἄμεινον;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μὴν καὶ ᾁδοντα δεῖ κιθαρίζειν ποτὲ πρὸς τὴν ᾠδὴν καὶ βαίνειν;
ΑΛ.δεῖ γάρ.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τότε ὁπότε βέλτιον;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ τοσαῦθʼ ὅσα βέλτιον;
ΑΛ.φημί.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; ἐπειδὴ βέλτιον μὲν ὠνόμαζες ἐπʼ ἀμφοτέροις,
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 8, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 70 (from 107b)
τῷ τε κιθαρίζειν πρὸς τὴν ᾠδὴν καὶ τῷ προσπαλαίειν, τί καλεῖς τὸ ἐν τῷ κιθαρίζειν βέλτιον, ὥσπερ ἐγὼ τὸ ἐν τῷ παλαίειν καλῶ γυμναστικόν· σὺ δʼ ἐκεῖνο τί καλεῖς;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἐννοῶ.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ πειρῶ ἐμὲ μιμεῖσθαι. ἐγὼ γάρ που ἀπεκρινάμην τὸ διὰ παντὸς ὀρθῶς ἔχον, ὀρθῶς δὲ δήπου ἔχει τὸ κατὰ τὴν τέχνην γιγνόμενον· ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἡ δὲ τέχνη οὐ γυμναστικὴ ἦν;
ΑΛ.πῶς δʼ οὔ;
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 77–78 · on 108b
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 78 · on 108b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 8, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 70 (from 107b)
ΣΩ.ἐγὼ δʼ εἶπον τὸ ἐν τῷ παλαίειν βέλτιον γυμναστικόν.
ΑΛ.εἶπες γάρ.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καλῶς;
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.ἴθι δὴ καὶ σύ—πρέποι γὰρ ἄν που καὶ σοὶ τὸ καλῶς διαλέγεσθαι—εἰπὲ πρῶτον τίς ἡ τέχνη ἧς τὸ κιθαρίζειν καὶ τὸ ᾁδειν καὶ τὸ ἐμβαίνειν ὀρθῶς; συνάπασα τίς καλεῖται; οὔπω δύνασαι εἰπεῖν;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ ὧδε πειρῶ· τίνες αἱ θεαὶ ὧν ἡ τέχνη;
ΑΛ.τὰς μούσας, ὦ Σώκρατες, λέγεις;
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 78–79 · on 108c
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 79 · on 108c
Olympiodorus lecture 8, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 79–80 · on 108c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 8, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 70 (from 107b)
ΣΩ.ἔγωγε. ὅρα δή· τίνα ἀπʼ αὐτῶν ἐπωνυμίαν ἡ τέχνη ἔχει;
ΑΛ.μουσικήν μοι δοκεῖς λέγειν.
ΣΩ.λέγω γάρ. τί οὖν τὸ κατὰ ταύτην ὀρθῶς γιγνόμενόν ἐστιν; ὥσπερ ἐκεῖ ἐγώ σοι τὸ κατὰ τὴν τέχνην ἔλεγον ὀρθῶς, τὴν γυμναστικήν, καὶ σὺ δὴ οὖν οὕτως ἐνταῦθα τί φῄς; πῶς γίγνεσθαι;
ΑΛ.μουσικῶς μοι δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.εὖ λέγεις. ἴθι δή, καὶ τὸ ἐν τῷ πολεμεῖν βέλτιον καὶ τὸ ἐν τῷ εἰρήνην ἄγειν, τοῦτο τὸ βέλτιον τί
Readers through the ages · 3
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 204; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 208) · on 108d
Olympiodorus lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 · on 108d–110d
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 82–83 · on 108d
ὀνομάζεις; ὥσπερ ἐκεῖ ἐφʼ ἑκάστῳ ἔλεγες τὸ ἄμεινον, ὅτι μουσικώτερον καὶ ἐπὶ τῷ ἑτέρῳ, ὅτι γυμναστικώτερον· πειρῶ δὴ καὶ ἐνταῦθα λέγειν τὸ βέλτιον.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ οὐ πάνυ τι ἔχω.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μέντοι αἰσχρόν γε εἰ μέν τις σε λέγοντα καὶ συμβουλεύοντα περὶ σιτίων ὅτι βέλτιον τόδε τοῦδε καὶ νῦν καὶ τοσοῦτον, ἔπειτα ἐρωτήσειεν "τί τὸ ἄμεινον λέγεις, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη "; περὶ μὲν τούτων ἔχειν εἰπεῖν ὅτι τὸ ὑγιεινότερον, καίτοι οὐ προσποιῇ γε ἰατρὸς εἶναι· περὶ δὲ οὗ
Readers through the ages · 8
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 208; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 209) · on 108e
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 208; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 209) · on 108e
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 83 · on 108e
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 83 · on 108e
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 83 · on 108e
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 83–84 · on 108e
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 84 · on 108e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
προσποιῇ ἐπιστήμων εἶναι καὶ συμβουλεύσεις ἀνιστάμενος ὡς εἰδώς, τούτου δʼ, ὡς ἔοικας, πέρι ἐρωτηθεὶς ἐὰν μὴ ἔχῃς εἰπεῖν, οὐκ αἰσχύνῃ; ἢ οὐκ αἰσχρὸν φανεῖται;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.σκόπει δὴ καὶ προθυμοῦ εἰπεῖν πρὸς τί τείνει τὸ ἐν τῷ εἰρήνην τε ἄγειν ἄμεινον καὶ τὸ ἐν τῷ πολεμεῖν οἷς δεῖ;
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ σκοπῶν οὐ δύναμαι ἐννοῆσαι.
ΣΩ.οὐδʼ οἶσθα, ἐπειδὰν πόλεμον ποιώμεθα, ὅτι ἐγκαλοῦντες ἀλλήλοις πάθημα ἐρχόμεθα εἰς τὸ πολεμεῖν, καὶ ὅτι αὐτὸ ὀνομάζοντες ἐρχόμεθα;
Readers through the ages · 5
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 209; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 212) · on 109a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 212; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 218) · on 109a–109b
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 84 · on 109a
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 84 · on 109a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε, ὅτι γε ἐξαπατώμενοί τι ἢ βιαζόμενοι ἢ ἀποστερούμενοι.
ΣΩ.ἔχε· πῶς ἕκαστα τούτων πάσχοντες; πειρῶ εἰπεῖν τί διαφέρει τὸ ὧδε ἢ ὧδε.
ΑΛ.ἦ τὸ ὧδε λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸ δικαίως ἢ τὸ ἀδίκως;
ΣΩ.αὐτὸ τοῦτο.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῦτο γε διαφέρει ὅλον τε καὶ πᾶν.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; Ἀθηναίοις σὺ πρὸς ποτέρους συμβουλεύσεις πολεμεῖν, τοὺς ἀδικοῦντας ἢ τοὺς τὰ δίκαια πράττοντας;
Readers through the ages · 6
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 84 · on 109b
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 84–85 · on 109b
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 85 · on 109b
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 85–86 · on 109b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 212; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 218) (from 109a)
ΑΛ.δεινὸν τοῦτό γε ἐρωτᾷς· εἰ γὰρ καὶ διανοεῖταί τις ὡς δεῖ πρὸς τοὺς τὰ δίκαια πράττοντας πολεμεῖν, οὐκ ἂν ὁμολογήσειέν γε.
ΣΩ.οὐ γὰρ νόμιμον τοῦθʼ, ὡς ἔοικεν.
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα· οὐδέ γε καλὸν δοκεῖ εἶναι.
ΣΩ.πρὸς ταῦτʼ ἄρα καὶ σὺ [τὸ] [δίκαιον] τοὺς λόγους ποιήσῃ;
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη.
ΣΩ.ἄλλο τι οὖν, ὃ νυνδὴ ἐγὼ ἠρώτων βέλτιον πρὸς τὸ πολεμεῖν καὶ μή, καὶ οἷς δεῖ καὶ οἷς μή, καὶ ὁπότε καὶ μή, τὸ δικαιότερον τυγχάνει ὄν; ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.φαίνεταί γε.
Readers through the ages · 4
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 218; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 223) · on 109c
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 86 · on 109c
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 86 · on 109c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ΣΩ.πῶς οὖν, ὦ φίλε Ἀλκιβιάδη; πότερον σαυτὸν λέληθας ὅτι οὐκ ἐπίστασαι τοῦτο, ἢ ἐμὲ ἔλαθες μανθάνων καὶ φοιτῶν εἰς διδασκάλου ὅς σε ἐδίδασκε διαγιγνώσκειν τὸ δικαιότερόν τε καὶ ἀδικώτερον; καὶ τίς ἐστιν οὗτος; φράσον καὶ ἐμοί, ἵνα αὐτῷ φοιτητὴν προξενήσῃς καὶ ἐμέ.
ΑΛ.σκώπτεις, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.οὐ μὰ τὸν Φίλιον τὸν ἐμόν τε καὶ σόν, ὃν ἐγὼ ἥκιστʼ ἂν ἐπιορκήσαιμι· ἀλλʼ εἴπερ ἔχεις, εἰπὲ τίς ἐστιν.
Readers through the ages · 5
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 223; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 231) · on 109d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 231; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 234) · on 109d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 234; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 239) · on 109d
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 86–89 · on 109d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ΑΛ.τί δʼ εἰ μὴ ἔχω; οὐκ ἂν οἴει με ἄλλως εἰδέναι περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων;
ΣΩ.ναί, εἴ γε εὕροις.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἂν εὑρεῖν με ἡγῇ;
ΣΩ.καὶ μάλα γε, εἰ ζητήσαις.
ΑΛ.εἶτα ζητῆσαι οὐκ ἂν οἴει με;
ΣΩ.ἔγωγε, εἰ οἰηθείης γε μὴ εἰδέναι.
ΑΛ.εἶτα οὐκ ἦν ὅτʼ εἶχον οὕτω;
ΣΩ.καλῶς λέγεις. ἔχεις οὖν εἰπεῖν τοῦτον τὸν χρόνον
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 89 · on 109e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ὅτε οὐκ ᾤου εἰδέναι τὰ δίκαια καὶ τὰ ἄδικα; φέρε, πέρυσιν ἐζήτεις τε καὶ οὐκ ᾤου εἰδέναι; ἢ ᾤου; καὶ τἀληθῆ ἀποκρίνου, ἵνα μὴ μάτην οἱ διάλογοι γίγνωνται.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ ᾤμην εἰδέναι.
ΣΩ.τρίτον δʼ ἔτος καὶ τέταρτον καὶ πέμπτον οὐχ οὕτως;
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μὴν τό γε πρὸ τοῦ παῖς ἦσθα. ἦ γάρ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τότε μὲν τοίνυν εὖ οἶδα ὅτι ᾤου εἰδέναι.
ΑΛ.πῶς εὖ οἶσθα;
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 89 · on 110a
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 89 · on 110a
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 89–90 · on 110a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ΣΩ.πολλάκις σοῦ ἐν διδασκάλων ἤκουον παιδὸς ὄντος καὶ ἄλλοθι, καὶ ὁπότε ἀστραγαλίζοις ἢ ἄλλην τινὰ παιδιὰν παίζοις, οὐχ ὡς ἀποροῦντος περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων, ἀλλὰ μάλα μέγα καὶ θαρραλέως λέγοντος περὶ ὅτου τύχοις τῶν παίδων ὡς πονηρός τε καὶ ἄδικος εἴη καὶ ὡς ἀδικοῖ· ἢ οὐκ ἀληθῆ λέγω;
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ τί ἔμελλον ποιεῖν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὁπότε τίς με ἀδικοῖ;
ΣΩ.σὺ δʼ εἰ τύχοις ἀγνοῶν εἴτʼ ἀδικοῖο εἴτε μὴ τότε, λέγεις, τί σε χρὴ ποιεῖν;
Readers through the ages · 5
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 239; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 240) · on 110b
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 239; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 240) · on 110b
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 90 · on 110b
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 90 · on 110b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ΑΛ.μὰ Δίʼ ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἠγνόουν ἔγωγε, ἀλλὰ σαφῶς ἐγίγνωσκον ὅτι ἠδικούμην.
ΣΩ.ὤιου ἄρα ἐπίστασθαι καὶ παῖς ὤν, ὡς ἔοικε, τὰ δίκαια καὶ τὰ ἄδικα.
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε· καὶ ἠπιστάμην γε.
ΣΩ.ἐν ποίῳ χρόνῳ ἐξευρών; οὐ γὰρ δήπου ἐν ᾧ γε ᾤου εἰδέναι.
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.πότε οὖν ἀγνοεῖν ἡγοῦ; σκόπει· οὐ γὰρ εὑρήσεις τοῦτον τὸν χρόνον.
ΑΛ.μὰ τὸν Δίʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὔκουν ἔχω γʼ εἰπεῖν.
Readers through the ages · 3
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 240; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 242) · on 110c
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 240; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 242) · on 110c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ΣΩ.εὑρὼν μὲν ἄρʼ οὐκ οἶσθα αὐτά.
ΑΛ.οὐ πάνυ φαίνομαι.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μὴν ἄρτι γε οὐδὲ μαθὼν ἔφησθα εἰδέναι· εἰ δὲ μήθʼ ηὗρες μήτʼ ἔμαθες, πῶς οἶσθα καὶ πόθεν;
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ ἴσως τοῦτό σοι οὐκ ὀρθῶς ἀπεκρινάμην, τὸ φάναι εἰδέναι αὐτὸς ἐξευρών.
ΣΩ.τὸ δὲ πῶς εἶχεν;
ΑΛ.ἔμαθον οἶμαι καὶ ἐγὼ ὥσπερ καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι.
ΣΩ.πάλιν εἰς τὸν αὐτὸν ἥκομεν λόγον. παρὰ τοῦ; φράζε κἀμοί.
Readers through the ages · 6
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 240; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 242) · on 110d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 242; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 253) · on 110d–110e
Olympiodorus lecture 9, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 90 · on 110d
Olympiodorus lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 · on 110d–112d
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 93–94 · on 110d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 9, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 80–82 (from 108d)
ΑΛ.παρὰ τῶν πολλῶν.
ΣΩ.οὐκ εἰς σπουδαίους γε διδασκάλους καταφεύγεις εἰς τοὺς πολλοὺς ἀναφέρων.
ΑΛ.τί δέ; οὐχ ἱκανοὶ διδάξαι οὗτοι;
ΣΩ.οὔκουν τὰ πεττευτικά γε καὶ τὰ μή· καίτοι φαυλότερα αὐτὰ οἶμαι τῶν δικαίων εἶναι. τί δέ; σὺ οὐχ οὕτως οἴει;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.εἶτα τὰ μὲν φαυλότερα οὐχ οἷοί τε διδάσκειν, τὰ δὲ σπουδαιότερα;
ΑΛ.οἶμαι ἔγωγε· ἄλλα γοῦν πολλὰ οἷοί τʼ εἰσὶν διδάσκειν σπουδαιότερα τοῦ πεττεύειν.
ΣΩ.ποῖα ταῦτα;
Readers through the ages · 7
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 253; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 266) · on 110e
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 94 · on 110e
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 94 · on 110e
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 95 · on 110e
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 95 · on 110e
Also on this section: Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 242; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 253) (from 110d) · Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
ΑΛ.οἷον καὶ τὸ ἑλληνίζειν παρὰ τούτων ἔγωγʼ ἔμαθον, καὶ οὐκ ἂν ἔχοιμι εἰπεῖν ἐμαυτοῦ διδάσκαλον, ἀλλʼ εἰς τοὺς αὐτοὺς ἀναφέρω οὓς σὺ φῂς οὐ σπουδαίους εἶναι διδασκάλους.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ, ὦ γενναῖε, τούτου μὲν ἀγαθοὶ διδάσκαλοι οἱ πολλοί, καὶ δικαίως ἐπαινοῖντʼ ἂν αὐτῶν εἰς διδασκαλίαν.
ΑΛ.τί δή;
ΣΩ.ὅτι ἔχουσι περὶ αὐτὰ ἃ χρὴ τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς διδασκάλους ἔχειν.
ΑΛ.τί τοῦτο λέγεις;
ΣΩ.οὐκ οἶσθʼ ὅτι χρὴ τοὺς μέλλοντας διδάσκειν ὁτιοῦν
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 95–96 · on 111a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
αὐτοὺς πρῶτον εἰδέναι; ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τοὺς εἰδότας ὁμολογεῖν τε ἀλλήλοις καὶ μὴ διαφέρεσθαι;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἐν οἷς δʼ ἂν διαφέρωνται, ταῦτα φήσεις εἰδέναι αὐτούς;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.τούτων οὖν διδάσκαλοι πῶς ἂν εἶεν;
ΑΛ.οὐδαμῶς.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; δοκοῦσί σοι διαφέρεσθαι οἱ πολλοὶ ποῖόν ἐστι λίθος ἢ ξύλον; καὶ ἐάν τινα ἐρωτᾷς, ἆρʼ οὐ τὰ αὐτὰ
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
ὁμολογοῦσιν, καὶ ἐπὶ ταὐτὰ ὁρμῶσιν ὅταν βούλωνται λαβεῖν λίθον ἢ ξύλον; ὡσαύτως καὶ πάνθʼ ὅσα τοιαῦτα· σχεδὸν γάρ τι μανθάνω τὸ ἑλληνίζειν ἐπίστασθαι ὅτι τοῦτο λέγεις· ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν εἰς μὲν ταῦθʼ, ὥσπερ εἴπομεν, ἀλλήλοις τε ὁμολογοῦσι καὶ αὐτοὶ ἑαυτοῖς ἰδίᾳ, καὶ δημοσίᾳ αἱ πόλεις πρὸς ἀλλήλας οὐκ ἀμφισβητοῦσιν αἱ μὲν ταῦθʼ αἱ δʼ ἄλλα φάσκουσαι;
ΑΛ.οὐ γάρ.
ΣΩ.εἰκότως ἂν ἄρα τούτων γε καὶ διδάσκαλοι εἶεν ἀγαθοί.
Readers through the ages · 3
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 266; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 267) · on 111c
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 96 · on 111c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν εἰ μὲν βουλοίμεθα ποιῆσαί τινα περὶ αὐτῶν εἰδέναι, ὀρθῶς ἂν αὐτὸν πέμποιμεν εἰς διδασκαλίαν τούτων τῶν πολλῶν;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ εἰ βουληθεῖμεν εἰδέναι, μὴ μόνον ποῖοι ἄνθρωποί εἰσιν ἢ ποῖοι ἵπποι, ἀλλὰ καὶ τίνες αὐτῶν δρομικοί τε καὶ μή, ἆρʼ ἔτι οἱ πολλοὶ τοῦτο ἱκανοὶ διδάξαι;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἱκανὸν δέ σοι τεκμήριον ὅτι οὐκ ἐπίστανται οὐδὲ
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 96–97 · on 111d
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 97 · on 111d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
κρήγυοι διδάσκαλοί εἰσιν τούτων, ἐπειδὴ οὐδὲν ὁμολογοῦσιν ἑαυτοῖς περὶ αὐτῶν;
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ εἰ βουληθεῖμεν εἰδέναι, μὴ μόνον ποῖοι ἄνθρωποί εἰσιν, ἀλλʼ ὁποῖοι ὑγιεινοὶ ἢ νοσώδεις, ἆρʼ ἱκανοὶ ἂν ἡμῖν ἦσαν διδάσκαλοι οἱ πολλοί;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἦν δʼ ἄν σοι τεκμήριον ὅτι μοχθηροί εἰσι τούτων διδάσκαλοι, εἰ ἑώρας αὐτοὺς διαφερομένους;
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε.
ΣΩ.τί δὲ δή; νῦν περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων ἀνθρώπων
Readers through the ages · 2
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 267; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 270) · on 111e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
καὶ πραγμάτων οἱ πολλοὶ δοκοῦσί σοι ὁμολογεῖν αὐτοὶ ἑαυτοῖς ἢ ἀλλήλοις;
ΑΛ.ἥκιστα νὴ Δίʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; μάλιστα περὶ αὐτῶν διαφέρεσθαι;
ΑΛ.πολύ γε.
ΣΩ.οὔκουν οἴομαί γε πώποτέ σε ἰδεῖν οὐδʼ ἀκοῦσαι σφόδρα οὕτω διαφερομένους ἀνθρώπους περὶ ὑγιεινῶν καὶ μή, ὥστε διὰ ταῦτα μάχεσθαί τε καὶ ἀποκτεινύναι ἀλλήλους.
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων ἔγωγʼ οἶδʼ ὅτι,
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 97 · on 112a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
καὶ εἰ μὴ ἑώρακας, ἀκήκοας γοῦν ἄλλων τε πολλῶν καὶ Ὁμήρου· καὶ Ὀδυσσείας γὰρ καὶ Ἰλιάδος ἀκήκοας.
ΑΛ.πάντως δήπου, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ταῦτα ποιήματά ἐστι περὶ διαφορᾶς δικαίων τε καὶ ἀδίκων;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ αἱ μάχαι γε καὶ οἱ θάνατοι διὰ ταύτην τὴν διαφορὰν τοῖς τε Ἀχαιοῖς καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις Τρωσὶν ἐγένοντο, καὶ τοῖς μνηστῆρσι τοῖς τῆς Πηνελόπης καὶ τῷ Ὀδυσσεῖ.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 97 · on 112b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.οἶμαι δὲ καὶ τοῖς ἐν Τανάγρᾳ Ἀθηναίων τε καὶ Λακεδαιμονίων καὶ Βοιωτῶν ἀποθανοῦσι, καὶ τοῖς ὕστερον ἐν Κορωνείᾳ, ἐν οἷς καὶ ὁ σὸς πατὴρ [Κλεινίας] ἐτελεύτησεν, οὐδὲ περὶ ἑνὸς ἄλλου ἡ διαφορὰ ἢ περὶ τοῦ δικαίου καὶ ἀδίκου τοὺς θανάτους καὶ τὰς μάχας πεποίηκεν· ἦ γάρ;
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.τούτους οὖν φῶμεν ἐπίστασθαι περὶ ὧν οὕτως
Readers through the ages · 3
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 270; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 276) · on 112c–112d
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 97 · on 112c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d)
σφόδρα διαφέρονται, ὥστε ἀμφισβητοῦντες ἀλλήλοις τὰ ἔσχατα σφᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐργάζονται;
ΑΛ.οὐ φαίνεταί γε.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν εἰς τοὺς τοιούτους διδασκάλους ἀναφέρεις οὓς ὁμολογεῖς αὐτὸς μὴ εἰδέναι;
ΑΛ.ἔοικα.
ΣΩ.πῶς οὖν εἰκός σε εἰδέναι τὰ δίκαια καὶ τὰ ἄδικα, περὶ ὧν οὕτω πλανᾷ καὶ οὔτε μαθὼν φαίνῃ παρʼ οὐδενὸς οὔτʼ αὐτὸς ἐξευρών;
ΑΛ.ἐκ μὲν ὧν σὺ λέγεις οὐκ εἰκός.
Readers through the ages · 8
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 270; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 276) · on 112d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 276; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 287) · on 112d
Olympiodorus lecture 10, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 98 · on 112d
Olympiodorus lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 · on 112d–114b
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 98–100 · on 112d
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 100–102 · on 112d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 10, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 90–93 (from 110d) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 270; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 276) (from 112c)
ΣΩ.ὁρᾷς αὖ τοῦθʼ ὡς οὐ καλῶς εἶπες, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη;
ΑΛ.τὸ ποῖον;
ΣΩ.ὅτι ἐμὲ φῂς ταῦτα λέγειν.
ΑΛ.τί δέ; οὐ σὺ λέγεις ὡς ἐγὼ οὐδὲν ἐπίσταμαι περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων;
ΣΩ.οὐ μέντοι.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ ἐγώ;
ΣΩ.ναί.
ΑΛ.πῶς δή;
ΣΩ.ὧδε εἴσῃ. ἐάν σε ἔρωμαι τὸ ἓν καὶ τὰ δύο πότερα πλείω ἐστί, φήσεις ὅτι τὰ δύο;
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.πόσῳ;
ΑΛ.ἑνί.
ΣΩ.πότερος οὖν ἡμῶν ὁ λέγων ὅτι τὰ δύο τοῦ ἑνὸς ἑνὶ πλείω;
ΑΛ.ἐγώ.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἐγὼ μὲν ἠρώτων, σὺ δʼ ἀπεκρίνου;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 102 · on 112e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d)
ΣΩ.περὶ δὴ τούτων μῶν ἐγὼ φαίνομαι λέγων ὁ ἐρωτῶν, ἢ σὺ ὁ ἀποκρινόμενος;
ΑΛ.ἐγώ.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ ἂν ἐγὼ μὲν ἔρωμαι ποῖα γράμματα Σωκράτους, σὺ δʼ εἴπῃς, πότερος ὁ λέγων;
ΑΛ.ἐγώ.
ΣΩ.ἴθι δή, ἑνὶ λόγῳ εἰπέ· ὅταν ἐρώτησίς τε καὶ ἀπόκρισις γίγνηται, πότερος ὁ λέγων, ὁ ἐρωτῶν ἢ ὁ ἀποκρινόμενος;
ΑΛ.ὁ ἀποκρινόμενος, ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 102 · on 113a
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 102 · on 113a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d)
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἄρτι διὰ παντὸς ἐγὼ μὲν ἦ ὁ ἐρωτῶν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.σὺ δʼ ὁ ἀποκρινόμενος;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; τὰ λεχθέντα πότερος ἡμῶν εἴρηκεν;
ΑΛ.φαίνομαι μέν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐκ τῶν ὡμολογημένων ἐγώ.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἐλέχθη περὶ δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων ὅτι Ἀλκιβιάδης ὁ καλὸς ὁ Κλεινίου οὐκ ἐπίσταιτο, οἴοιτο δέ, καὶ μέλλοι εἰς ἐκκλησίαν ἐλθὼν συμβουλεύσειν Ἀθηναίοις περὶ ὧν οὐδὲν οἶδεν; οὐ ταῦτʼ ἦν;
Readers through the ages · 5
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 287; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 294) · on 113b–113c
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 102 · on 113b
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 102–103 · on 113b
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 103–104 · on 113b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d)
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.τὸ τοῦ Εὐριπίδου ἄρα συμβαίνει, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη· σοῦ τάδε κινδυνεύεις, οὐκ ἐμοῦ ἀκηκοέναι, οὐδʼ ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ταῦτα λέγων, ἀλλὰ σύ, ἐμὲ δὲ αἰτιᾷ μάτην. καὶ μέντοι καὶ εὖ λέγεις. μανικὸν γὰρ ἐν νῷ ἔχεις ἐπιχείρημα ἐπιχειρεῖν, ὦ βέλτιστε, διδάσκειν ἃ οὐκ οἶσθα, ἀμελήσας μανθάνειν.
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 104 · on 113c
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 104 · on 113c
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 104–106 · on 113c–113d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 287; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 294) (from 113b)
ΑΛ.οἶμαι μέν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὀλιγάκις Ἀθηναίους βουλεύεσθαι καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους Ἕλληνας πότερα δικαιότερα ἢ ἀδικώτερα· τὰ μὲν γὰρ τοιαῦτα ἡγοῦνται δῆλα εἶναι, ἐάσαντες οὖν περὶ αὐτῶν σκοποῦσιν ὁπότερα συνοίσει πράξασιν. οὐ γὰρ ταὐτὰ οἶμαι ἐστὶν τά τε δίκαια καὶ τὰ συμφέροντα, ἀλλὰ πολλοῖς δὴ ἐλυσιτέλησεν ἀδικήσασι μεγάλα ἀδικήματα, καὶ ἑτέροις γε οἶμαι δίκαια ἐργασαμένοις οὐ συνήνεγκεν.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; εἰ ὅτι μάλιστα ἕτερα μὲν τὰ δίκαια
Readers through the ages · 6
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 294; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 299) · on 113d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 299; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 307) · on 113d–113e
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 106 · on 113d
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 106 · on 113d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d) · Olympiodorus, lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 104–106 (from 113c)
τυγχάνει ὄντα, ἕτερα δὲ τὰ συμφέροντα, οὔ τί που αὖ σὺ οἴει ταῦτʼ εἰδέναι ἃ συμφέρει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, καὶ διʼ ὅτι;
ΑΛ.τί γὰρ κωλύει, ὦ Σώκρατες; εἰ μή με αὖ ἐρήσῃ παρʼ ὅτου ἔμαθον ἢ ὅπως αὐτὸς ηὗρον.
ΣΩ.οἷον τοῦτο ποιεῖς. εἴ τι μὴ ὀρθῶς λέγεις, τυγχάνει δὲ δυνατὸν ὂν ἀποδεῖξαι διʼ οὗπερ καὶ τὸ πρότερον λόγου, οἴει δὴ καινὰ ἄττα δεῖν ἀκούειν ἀποδείξεις τε ἑτέρας, ὡς τῶν προτέρων οἷον σκευαρίων κατατετριμμένων, καὶ οὐκέτʼ ἂν σὺ αὐτὰ ἀμπίσχοιο, εἰ μή τίς σοι τεκμήριον καθαρὸν
Readers through the ages · 7
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 299; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 307) · on 113e
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 299; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 307) · on 113e
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 106 · on 113e
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 106–107 · on 113e
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 107 · on 113e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 299; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 307) (from 113d)
καὶ ἄχραντον οἴσει. ἐγὼ δὲ χαίρειν ἐάσας τὰς σὰς προδρομὰς τοῦ λόγου οὐδὲν ἧττον ἐρήσομαι πόθεν μαθὼν αὖ τὰ συμφέροντʼ ἐπίστασαι, καὶ ὅστις ἐστὶν ὁ διδάσκαλος, καὶ πάντʼ ἐκεῖνα τὰ πρότερον ἐρωτῶ μιᾷ ἐρωτήσει; ἀλλὰ γὰρ δῆλον ὡς εἰς ταὐτὸν ἥξεις καὶ οὐχ ἕξεις ἀποδεῖξαι οὔθʼ ὡς ἐξευρὼν οἶσθα τὰ συμφέροντα οὔθʼ ὡς μαθών. ἐπειδὴ δὲ τρυφᾷς καὶ οὐκέτʼ ἂν ἡδέως τοῦ αὐτοῦ γεύσαιο λόγου, τοῦτον μὲν ἐῶ χαίρειν, εἴτʼ οἶσθα εἴτε μὴ τὰ Ἀθηναίοις συμφέροντα·
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 107 · on 114a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d)
πότερον δὲ ταὐτά ἐστι δίκαιά τε καὶ συμφέροντʼ ἢ ἕτερα, τί οὐκ ἀπέδειξας; εἰ μὲν βούλει, ἐρωτῶν με ὥσπερ ἐγὼ σέ, εἰ δέ, καὶ αὐτὸς ἐπὶ σεαυτοῦ λόγῳ διέξελθε.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ οὐκ οἶδα εἰ οἷός τʼ ἂν εἴην, ὦ Σώκρατες, πρὸς σὲ διελθεῖν.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ, ὠγαθέ, ἐμὲ ἐκκλησίαν νόμισον καὶ δῆμον· καὶ ἐκεῖ τοί σε δεήσει ἕνα ἕκαστον πείθειν. ἦ γάρ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τοῦ αὐτοῦ ἕνα τε οἷόν τε εἶναι κατὰ μόνας
Readers through the ages · 7
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 107–108 · on 114b
Olympiodorus lecture 11, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 108 · on 114b
Olympiodorus lecture 12, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 108–112 · on 114b–115a
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 112 · on 114b
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 112 · on 114b
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 112 · on 114b–114c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 11, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer p. 98 (from 112d)
πείθειν καὶ συμπόλλους περὶ ὧν ἂν εἰδῇ, ὥσπερ ὁ γραμματιστὴς ἕνα τέ που πείθει περὶ γραμμάτων καὶ πολλούς;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν οὐ καὶ περὶ ἀριθμοῦ ὁ αὐτὸς ἕνα τε καὶ πολλοὺς πείσει;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὗτος δʼ ἔσται ὁ εἰδώς, ὁ ἀριθμητικός;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ σὺ ἅπερ καὶ πολλοὺς οἷός τε πείθειν εἶ, ταῦτα καὶ ἕνα;
ΑΛ.εἰκός γε.
ΣΩ.ἔστι δὲ ταῦτα δῆλον ὅτι ἃ οἶσθα.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἄλλο τι οὖν τοσοῦτον μόνον διαφέρει τοῦ ἐν τῷ
Readers through the ages · 6
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 307; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 309) · on 114c–114d
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 309; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 313) · on 114c
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 112 · on 114c
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 112–113 · on 114c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 12, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 108–112 (from 114b) · Olympiodorus, lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 112 (from 114b)
δήμῳ ῥήτορος ὁ ἐν τῇ τοιᾷδε συνουσίᾳ, ὅτι ὁ μὲν ἁθρόους πείθει τὰ αὐτά, ὁ δὲ καθʼ ἕνα;
ΑΛ.κινδυνεύει.
ΣΩ.ἴθι νῦν, ἐπειδὴ τοῦ αὐτοῦ φαίνεται πολλούς τε καὶ ἕνα πείθειν, ἐν ἐμοὶ ἐμμελέτησον καὶ ἐπιχείρησον ἐπιδεῖξαι ὡς τὸ δίκαιον ἐνίοτε οὐ συμφέρει.
ΑΛ.ὑβριστὴς εἶ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.νῦν γοῦν ὑφʼ ὕβρεως μέλλω σε πείθειν τἀναντία οἷς σὺ ἐμὲ οὐκ ἐθέλεις.
ΑΛ.λέγε δή.
ΣΩ.ἀποκρίνου μόνον τὰ ἐρωτώμενα.
Readers through the ages · 6
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 313; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 315) · on 114d
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 113 · on 114d
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 113 · on 114d
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 113 · on 114d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 12, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 108–112 (from 114b) · Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 307; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 309) (from 114c)
ΑΛ.μή, ἀλλὰ σὺ αὐτὸς λέγε.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ; οὐχ ὅτι μάλιστα βούλει πεισθῆναι;
ΑΛ.πάντως δήπου.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν εἰ λέγεις ὅτι ταῦθʼ οὕτως ἔχει, μάλιστʼ ἂν εἴης πεπεισμένος;
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.ἀποκρίνου δή· καὶ ἐὰν μὴ αὐτὸς σὺ σαυτοῦ ἀκούσῃς ὅτι τὰ δίκαια καὶ συμφέροντά ἐστιν, ἄλλῳ γε λέγοντι μὴ πιστεύσῃς.
ΑΛ.οὔτοι, ἀλλʼ ἀποκριτέον· καὶ γὰρ οὐδὲν οἴομαι βλαβήσεσθαι.
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 113–114 · on 114e
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 114 · on 114e
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 114 · on 114e
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 114 · on 114e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 12, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 108–112 (from 114b)
ΣΩ.μαντικὸς γὰρ εἶ. καί μοι λέγε· τῶν δικαίων φῂς ἔνια μὲν συμφέρειν, ἔνια δʼ οὔ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; τὰ μὲν καλὰ αὐτῶν εἶναι, τὰ δʼ οὔ;
ΑΛ.πῶς τοῦτο ἐρωτᾷς;
ΣΩ.εἴ τις ἤδη σοι ἔδοξεν αἰσχρὰ μέν, δίκαια δὲ πράττειν;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔμοιγε.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ πάντα τὰ δίκαια καὶ καλά;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ αὖ τὰ καλά; πότερον πάντα ἀγαθά, ἢ τὰ μέν, τὰ δʼ οὔ;
ΑΛ.οἴομαι ἔγωγε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔνια τῶν καλῶν κακὰ εἶναι.
ΣΩ.ἦ καὶ αἰσχρὰ ἀγαθά;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 5
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 315; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 331) · on 115a
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 331; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 338) · on 115a–115c
Olympiodorus lecture 12, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 114 · on 115a
Olympiodorus lecture 13, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 114–120 · on 115a–115e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 12, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 108–112 (from 114b)
ΣΩ.ἆρα λέγεις τὰ τοιάδε, οἷον πολλοὶ ἐν πολέμῳ βοηθήσαντες ἑταίρῳ ἢ οἰκείῳ τραύματα ἔλαβον καὶ ἀπέθανον, οἱ δʼ οὐ βοηθήσαντες, δέον, ὑγιεῖς ἀπῆλθον;
ΑΛ.πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τὴν τοιαύτην βοήθειαν καλὴν μὲν λέγεις κατὰ τὴν ἐπιχείρησιν τοῦ σῶσαι οὓς ἔδει, τοῦτο δʼ ἐστὶν ἀνδρεία· ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.κακὴν δέ γε κατὰ τοὺς θανάτους τε καὶ ἕλκη· ἦ γάρ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 2
Also on this section: Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 331; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 338) (from 115a) · Olympiodorus, lecture 13, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 114–120 (from 115a)
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν οὐκ ἄλλο μὲν ἡ ἀνδρεία, ἄλλο δὲ ὁ θάνατος;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα κατὰ ταὐτόν γʼ ἐστι καλὸν καὶ κακὸν τὸ τοῖς φίλοις βοηθεῖν;
ΑΛ.οὐ φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ὅρα τοίνυν εἰ, ᾗ γε καλόν, καὶ ἀγαθόν, ὥσπερ καὶ ἐνταῦθα. κατὰ τὴν ἀνδρείαν γὰρ ὡμολόγεις καλὸν εἶναι τὴν βοήθειαν· τοῦτʼ οὖν αὐτὸ σκόπει, τὴν ἀνδρείαν, ἀγαθὸν ἢ κακόν; ὧδε δὲ σκόπει· σὺ πότερʼ ἂν δέξαιό σοι εἶναι, ἀγαθὰ ἢ κακά;
ΑΛ.ἀγαθά.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 13, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 120 · on 115c
Also on this section: Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 331; the comment goes on (the next lemma excerpted here is on p. 338) (from 115a) · Olympiodorus, lecture 13, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 114–120 (from 115a)
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τὰ μέγιστα μάλιστα.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ ἥκιστα τῶν τοιούτων δέξαιο ἂν στέρεσθαι;
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.πῶς οὖν λέγεις περὶ ἀνδρείας; ἐπὶ πόσῳ ἂν αὐτοῦ δέξαιο στέρεσθαι;
ΑΛ.οὐδὲ ζῆν ἂν ἐγὼ δεξαίμην δειλὸς ὤν.
ΣΩ.ἔσχατον ἄρα κακῶν εἶναί σοι δοκεῖ ἡ δειλία.
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε.
ΣΩ.ἐξ ἴσου τῷ τεθνάναι, ὡς ἔοικε.
ΑΛ.φημί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν θανάτῳ τε καὶ δειλίᾳ ἐναντιώτατον ζωὴ καὶ ἀνδρεία;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 13, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 120 · on 115d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 13, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 114–120 (from 115a)
ΣΩ.καὶ τὰ μὲν μάλιστʼ ἂν εἶναι βούλοιό σοι, τὰ δὲ ἥκιστα;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ ὅτι τὰ μὲν ἄριστα ἡγῇ, τὰ δὲ κάκιστα;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἐν τοῖς ἀρίστοις ἄρα σὺ ἡγῇ ἀνδρείαν εἶναι κἀν τοῖς κακίστοις θάνατον.
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.τὸ ἄρα βοηθεῖν ἐν πολέμῳ τοῖς φίλοις, ᾗ μὲν καλόν, κατʼ ἀγαθοῦ πρᾶξιν τὴν τῆς ἀνδρείας, καλὸν αὐτὸ προσεῖπας;
ΑΛ.φαίνομαί γε.
ΣΩ.κατὰ δέ γε κακοῦ πρᾶξιν τὴν τοῦ θανάτου κακόν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὧδε δίκαιον προσαγορεύειν ἑκάστην τῶν πράξεων· εἴπερ ᾗ κακὸν ἀπεργάζεται κακὴν καλεῖς, καὶ ᾗ
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 13, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 120 · on 115e
Olympiodorus lecture 13, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 120–121 · on 115e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 13, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 114–120 (from 115a)
ἀγαθὸν ἀγαθὴν κλητέον.
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν καὶ ᾗ ἀγαθόν, καλόν· ᾗ δὲ κακόν, αἰσχρόν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τὴν ἄρʼ ἐν τῷ πολέμῳ τοῖς φίλοις βοήθειαν λέγων καλὴν μὲν εἶναι, κακὴν δέ, οὐδὲν διαφερόντως λέγεις ἢ εἰ προσεῖπες αὐτὴν ἀγαθὴν μέν, κακὴν δέ.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ μοι δοκεῖς λέγειν, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.οὐδὲν ἄρα τῶν καλῶν, καθʼ ὅσον καλόν, κακόν, οὐδὲ τῶν αἰσχρῶν, καθʼ ὅσον αἰσχρόν, ἀγαθόν.
Readers through the ages · 1
Proclus on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 338 · on 116a–116b
ΑΛ.οὐ φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ἔτι τοίνυν καὶ ὧδε σκέψαι. ὅστις καλῶς πράττει, οὐχὶ καὶ εὖ πράττει;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οἱ δʼ εὖ πράττοντες οὐκ εὐδαίμονες;
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν εὐδαίμονες διʼ ἀγαθῶν κτῆσιν;
ΑΛ.μάλιστα.
ΣΩ.κτῶνται δὲ ταῦτα τῷ εὖ καὶ καλῶς πράττειν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τὸ εὖ ἄρα πράττειν ἀγαθόν;
ΑΛ.πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καλὸν ἡ εὐπραγία;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 6
Olympiodorus lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 · on 116b–118a
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 125–126 · on 116b
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 126–127 · on 116b
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 127 · on 116b
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 127 · on 116b
Also on this section: Proclus, on the words quoted, the opening of the comment; Creuzer p. 338 (from 116a)
ΣΩ.ταὐτὸν ἄρα ἐφάνη ἡμῖν πάλιν αὖ καλόν τε καὶ ἀγαθόν.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ὅτι ἂν ἄρα εὕρωμεν καλόν, καὶ ἀγαθὸν εὑρήσομεν ἔκ γε τούτου τοῦ λόγου.
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; τὰ ἀγαθὰ συμφέρει ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.συμφέρει.
ΣΩ.μνημονεύεις οὖν περὶ τῶν δικαίων πῶς ὡμολογήσαμεν;
ΑΛ.οἶμαί γε τοὺς τὰ δίκαια πράττοντας ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι καλὰ πράττειν.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ τοὺς τὰ καλὰ ἀγαθά;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 127 · on 116c
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 127 · on 116c
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 127–128 · on 116c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
ΣΩ.τὰ δὲ ἀγαθὰ συμφέρειν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τὰ δίκαια ἄρα, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, συμφέροντά ἐστιν.
ΑΛ.ἔοικεν.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; ταῦτα οὐ σὺ ὁ λέγων, ἐγὼ δὲ ὁ ἐρωτῶν;
ΑΛ.φαίνομαι, ὡς ἔοικα.
ΣΩ.εἰ οὖν τις ἀνίσταται συμβουλεύσων εἴτε Ἀθηναίοις εἴτε Πεπαρηθίοις, οἰόμενος γιγνώσκειν τὰ δίκαια καὶ τὰ ἄδικα, φήσει δʼ εἶναι τὰ δίκαια κακὰ ἐνίοτε, ἄλλο τι ἢ καταγελῴης ἂν αὐτοῦ, ἐπειδήπερ τυγχάνεις καὶ σὺ λέγων
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 128 · on 116d
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 128 · on 116d
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 128 · on 116d
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 128 · on 116d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
- ;ΑΛ.,,,·,.ΣΩ.,,;ΑΛ..ΣΩ.,,,,,,;
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 128–129 · on 116e
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 129–130 · on 116e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
ΑΛ.δέδοικα μὲν ἔγωγε ἤδη περὶ ἐμαυτοῦ, οἶμαι μέντοι τὰ αὐτά.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὅτι οἶσθα; τοῦτʼ αἴτιον;
ΑΛ.οἶμαι ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.περὶ ὧν ἄρα ἄκων τἀναντία ἀποκρίνῃ, δῆλον ὅτι περὶ τούτων οὐκ οἶσθα.
ΑΛ.εἰκός γε.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων καὶ καλῶν καὶ αἰσχρῶν καὶ κακῶν καὶ ἀγαθῶν καὶ συμφερόντων καὶ μὴ ἀποκρινόμενος φῂς πλανᾶσθαι; εἶτα οὐ δῆλον ὅτι διὰ τὸ μὴ εἰδέναι περὶ αὐτῶν, διὰ ταῦτα πλανᾷ;
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 130 · on 117a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν οὕτω καὶ ἔχει· ἐπειδάν τίς τι μὴ εἰδῇ, ἀναγκαῖον περὶ τούτου πλανᾶσθαι τὴν ψυχήν;
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; οἶσθα ὅντινα τρόπον ἀναβήσῃ εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν;
ΑΛ.μὰ Δίʼ οὐκ ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.ἦ καὶ πλανᾶταί σου ἡ δόξα περὶ ταῦτα;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.τὸ δʼ αἴτιον οἶσθα ἢ ἐγὼ φράσω;
ΑΛ.φράσον.
ΣΩ.ὅτι, ὦ φίλε, οὐκ οἴει αὐτὸ ἐπίστασθαι οὐκ ἐπιστάμενος.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
ΑΛ.πῶς αὖ τοῦτο λέγεις;
ΣΩ.ὅρα καὶ σὺ κοινῇ. ἃ μὴ ἐπίστασαι, γιγνώσκεις δὲ ὅτι οὐκ ἐπίστασαι, πλανᾷ περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα; ὥσπερ περὶ ὄψου σκευασίας οἶσθα δήπου ὅτι οὐκ οἶσθα;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.πότερον οὖν αὐτὸς περὶ ταῦτα δοξάζεις ὅπως χρὴ σκευάζειν καὶ πλανᾷ, ἢ τῷ ἐπισταμένῳ ἐπιτρέπεις;
ΑΛ.οὕτως.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ εἰ ἐν νηῒ πλέοις, ἆρα δοξάζοις ἂν πότερον
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
χρὴ τὸν οἴακα εἴσω ἄγειν ἢ ἔξω, καὶ ἅτε οὐκ εἰδὼς πλανῷο ἄν, ἢ τῷ κυβερνήτῃ ἐπιτρέψας ἂν ἡσυχίαν ἄγοις;
ΑΛ.τῷ κυβερνήτῃ.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα περὶ ἃ μὴ οἶσθα πλανᾷ, ἄνπερ εἰδῇς ὅτι οὐκ οἶσθα;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔοικα.
ΣΩ.ἐννοεῖς οὖν ὅτι καὶ τὰ ἁμαρτήματα ἐν τῇ πράξει διὰ ταύτην τὴν ἄγνοιάν ἐστι, τὴν τοῦ μὴ εἰδότα οἴεσθαι εἰδέναι;
ΑΛ.πῶς αὖ λέγεις τοῦτο;
ΣΩ.τότε που ἐπιχειροῦμεν πράττειν, ὅταν οἰώμεθα εἰδέναι ὅτι πράττομεν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 130–131 · on 117d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
ΣΩ.ὅταν δέ γέ πού τινες μὴ οἴωνται εἰδέναι, ἄλλοις παραδιδόασι;
ΑΛ.πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν οἱ τοιοῦτοι τῶν μὴ εἰδότων ἀναμάρτητοι ζῶσι διὰ τὸ ἄλλοις περὶ αὐτῶν ἐπιτρέπειν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τίνες οὖν οἱ ἁμαρτάνοντες; οὐ γάρ που οἵ γε εἰδότες.
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἐπειδὴ δʼ οὔθʼ οἱ εἰδότες οὔθʼ οἱ τῶν μὴ εἰδότων
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
εἰδότες ὅτι οὐκ ἴσασιν, ἦ ἄλλοι λείπονται ἢ οἱ μὴ εἰδότες, οἰόμενοι δʼ εἰδέναι;
ΑΛ.οὔκ, ἀλλʼ οὗτοι.
ΣΩ.αὕτη ἄρα ἡ ἄγνοια τῶν κακῶν αἰτία καὶ ἡ ἐπονείδιστος ἀμαθία;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὅταν ᾖ περὶ τὰ μέγιστα, τότε κακουργοτάτη καὶ αἰσχίστη;
ΑΛ.πολύ γε.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; ἔχεις μείζω εἰπεῖν δικαίων τε καὶ καλῶν καὶ ἀγαθῶν καὶ συμφερόντων;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν περὶ ταῦτα σὺ φῂς πλανᾶσθαι;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.εἰ δὲ πλανᾷ, ἆρʼ οὐ δῆλον ἐκ τῶν ἔμπροσθεν ὅτι
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 131 · on 118a
Olympiodorus lecture 14, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 131 · on 118a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 14, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 121–125 (from 116b)
οὐ μόνον ἀγνοεῖς τὰ μέγιστα, ἀλλὰ καὶ οὐκ εἰδὼς οἴει αὐτὰ εἰδέναι;
ΑΛ.κινδυνεύω.
ΣΩ.βαβαῖ ἄρα, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, οἷον πάθος πέπονθας· ὃ ἐγὼ ὀνομάζειν μὲν ὀκνῶ, ὅμως δέ, ἐπειδὴ μόνω ἐσμέν, ῥητέον. ἀμαθίᾳ γὰρ συνοικεῖς, ὦ βέλτιστε, τῇ ἐσχάτῃ, ὡς ὁ λόγος σου κατηγορεῖ καὶ σὺ σαυτοῦ· διὸ καὶ ᾁττεις ἄρα πρὸς τὰ πολιτικὰ πρὶν παιδευθῆναι. πέπονθας δὲ τοῦτο οὐ σὺ μόνος, ἀλλὰ καὶ οἱ πολλοὶ τῶν πραττόντων τὰ τῆσδε
Readers through the ages · 9
Olympiodorus lecture 15, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 131–132 · on 118b–119a
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 132 · on 118b
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 132–133 · on 118b
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 133 · on 118b
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 133–134 · on 118b
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 134 · on 118b
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 134 · on 118b
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 134 · on 118b
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 134–135 · on 118b
τῆς πόλεως, πλὴν ὀλίγων γε καὶ ἴσως τοῦ σοῦ ἐπιτρόπου Περικλέους.
ΑΛ.λέγεταί γέ τοι, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐκ ἀπὸ τοῦ αὐτομάτου σοφὸς γεγονέναι, ἀλλὰ πολλοῖς καὶ σοφοῖς συγγεγονέναι, καὶ Πυθοκλείδῃ καὶ Ἀναξαγόρᾳ· καὶ νῦν ἔτι τηλικοῦτος ὢν Δάμωνι σύνεστιν αὐτοῦ τούτου ἕνεκα.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; ἤδη τινʼ εἶδες σοφὸν ὁτιοῦν ἀδυνατοῦντα ποιῆσαι ἄλλον σοφὸν ἅπερ αὐτός; ὥσπερ ὅς σε ἐδίδαξεν γράμματα, αὐτός τʼ ἦν σοφὸς καὶ σὲ ἐποίησε τῶν τε ἄλλων ὅντινʼ ἐβούλετο· ἦ γάρ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 135–137 · on 118c
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 137 · on 118c
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 137–138 · on 118c
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 138–139 · on 118c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 15, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 131–132 (from 118b)
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ σὺ ὁ παρʼ ἐκείνου μαθὼν ἄλλον οἷός τε ἔσῃ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ ὁ κιθαριστὴς δὲ καὶ ὁ παιδοτρίβης ὡσαύτως;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.καλὸν γὰρ δήπου τεκμήριον τοῦτο τῶν ἐπισταμένων ὁτιοῦν ὅτι ἐπίστανται, ἐπειδὰν καὶ ἄλλον οἷοί τʼ ὦσιν ἀποδεῖξαι ἐπιστάμενον.
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν; ἔχεις εἰπεῖν Περικλῆς τίνα ἐποίησεν σοφόν, ἀπὸ τῶν ὑέων ἀρξάμενος;
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 139 · on 118d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 15, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 131–132 (from 118b)
ΑΛ.τί δʼ εἰ τὼ Περικλέους ὑεῖ ἠλιθίω ἐγενέσθην, ὦ Σώκρατες;
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ Κλεινίαν τὸν σὸν ἀδελφόν.
ΑΛ.τί δʼ ἂν αὖ Κλεινίαν λέγοις, μαινόμενον ἄνθρωπον;
ΣΩ.ἐπειδὴ τοίνυν Κλεινίας μὲν μαίνεται, τὼ δὲ Περικλέους ὑεῖ ἠλιθίω ἐγενέσθην, σοὶ τίνα αἰτίαν ἀναθῶμεν, διʼ ὅτι σε οὕτως ἔχοντα περιορᾷ;
ΑΛ.ἐγὼ οἶμαι αἴτιος οὐ προσέχων τὸν νοῦν.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 15, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 131–132 (from 118b)
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ τῶν ἄλλων Ἀθηναίων ἢ τῶν ξένων δοῦλον ἢ ἐλεύθερον εἰπὲ ὅστις αἰτίαν ἔχει διὰ τὴν Περικλέους συνουσίαν σοφώτερος γεγονέναι, ὥσπερ ἐγὼ ἔχω σοι εἰπεῖν διὰ τὴν Ζήνωνος Πυθόδωρον τὸν Ἰσολόχου καὶ Καλλίαν τὸν Καλλιάδου, ὧν ἑκάτερος Ζήνωνι ἑκατὸν μνᾶς τελέσας σοφός τε καὶ ἐλλόγιμος γέγονεν.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ μὰ Δίʼ οὐκ ἔχω.
ΣΩ.εἶεν· τί οὖν διανοῇ περὶ σαυτοῦ; πότερον ἐᾶν ὡς νῦν ἔχεις, ἢ ἐπιμέλειάν τινα ποιεῖσθαι;
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 139–140 · on 119a
Olympiodorus lecture 15, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 140–141 · on 119a
Olympiodorus lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 · on 119a–120c
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 146 · on 119a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 15, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 131–132 (from 118b)
ΑΛ.κοινὴ βουλή, ὦ Σώκρατες. καίτοι ἐννοῶ σου εἰπόντος καὶ συγχωρῶ· δοκοῦσι γάρ μοι οἱ τὰ τῆς πόλεως πράττοντες ἐκτὸς ὀλίγων ἀπαίδευτοι εἶναι.
ΣΩ.εἶτα τί δὴ τοῦτο;
ΑΛ.εἰ μέν που ἦσαν πεπαιδευμένοι, ἔδει ἂν τὸν ἐπιχειροῦντα αὐτοῖς ἀνταγωνίζεσθαι μαθόντα καὶ ἀσκήσαντα ἰέναι ὡς ἐπʼ ἀθλητάς· νῦν δʼ ἐπειδὴ καὶ οὗτοι ἰδιωτικῶς ἔχοντες ἐληλύθασιν ἐπὶ τὰ τῆς πόλεως, τί δεῖ ἀσκεῖν καὶ μανθάνοντα πράγματα ἔχειν; ἐγὼ γὰρ εὖ οἶδʼ ὅτι τούτων
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 146–147 · on 119b
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 147 · on 119b
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 147 · on 119b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 (from 119a)
τῇ γε φύσει πάνυ πολὺ περιέσομαι.
ΣΩ.βαβαῖ, οἷον, ὦ ἄριστε, τοῦτʼ εἴρηκας· ὡς ἀνάξιον τῆς ἰδέας καὶ τῶν ἄλλων τῶν σοι ὑπαρχόντων.
ΑΛ.τί μάλιστα καὶ πρὸς τί τοῦτο λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες;
ΣΩ.ἀγανακτῶ ὑπέρ τε σοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἐμαυτοῦ ἔρωτος.
ΑΛ.τί δή;
ΣΩ.εἰ ἠξίωσας τὸν ἀγῶνά σοι εἶναι πρὸς τοὺς ἐνθάδε ἀνθρώπους.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ πρὸς τίνας μήν;
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 147 · on 119c
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 147 · on 119c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 (from 119a)
ΣΩ.ἄξιον τοῦτό γε καὶ ἐρέσθαι ἄνδρα οἰόμενον μεγαλόφρονα εἶναι.
ΑΛ.πῶς λέγεις; οὐ πρὸς τούτους μοι ὁ ἀγών;
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ κἂν εἰ τριήρη διενοοῦ κυβερνᾶν μέλλουσαν ναυμαχεῖν, ἤρκει ἄν σοι τῶν συνναυτῶν βελτίστῳ εἶναι τὰ κυβερνητικά, ἢ ταῦτα μὲν ᾤου ἂν δεῖν ὑπάρχειν, ἀπέβλεπες δʼ ἂν εἰς τοὺς ὡς ἀληθῶς ἀνταγωνιστάς, ἀλλʼ οὐχ ὡς νῦν εἰς τοὺς συναγωνιστάς; ὧν δήπου περιγενέσθαι σε δεῖ τοσοῦτον
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 147 · on 119d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 (from 119a)
ὥστε μὴ ἀξιοῦν ἀνταγωνίζεσθαι, ἀλλὰ καταφρονηθέντας συναγωνίζεσθαί σοι πρὸς τοὺς πολεμίους, εἰ δὴ τῷ ὄντι γε καλόν τι ἔργον ἀποδείξασθαι διανοῇ καὶ ἄξιον σαυτοῦ τε καὶ τῆς πόλεως.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ μὲν δὴ διανοοῦμαί γε.
ΣΩ.πάνυ σοι ἄρα ἄξιον ἀγαπᾶν εἰ τῶν στρατιωτῶν βελτίων εἶ, ἀλλʼ οὐ πρὸς τοὺς τῶν ἀντιπάλων ἡγεμόνας ἀποβλέπειν εἴ ποτε ἐκείνων βελτίων γέγονας, σκοποῦντα καὶ ἀσκοῦντα πρὸς ἐκείνους.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 148 · on 119e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 (from 119a)
ΑΛ.λέγεις δὲ τίνας τούτους, ὦ Σώκρατες;
ΣΩ.οὐκ οἶσθα ἡμῶν τὴν πόλιν Λακεδαιμονίοις τε καὶ τῷ μεγάλῳ βασιλεῖ πολεμοῦσαν ἑκάστοτε;
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν εἴπερ ἐν νῷ ἔχεις ἡγεμὼν εἶναι τῆσδε τῆς πόλεως, πρὸς τοὺς Λακεδαιμονίων βασιλέας καὶ τοὺς Περσῶν τὸν ἀγῶνα ἡγούμενός σοι εἶναι ὀρθῶς ἂν ἡγοῖο;
ΑΛ.κινδυνεύεις ἀληθῆ λέγειν.
ΣΩ.οὔκ, ὠγαθέ, ἀλλὰ πρὸς Μειδίαν σε δεῖ τὸν ὀρτυγοκόπον
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 148 · on 120a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 (from 119a)
ἀποβλέπειν καὶ ἄλλους τοιούτους—οἳ τὰ τῆς πόλεως πράττειν ἐπιχειροῦσιν, ἔτι τὴν ἀνδραποδώδη, φαῖεν ἂν αἱ γυναῖκες, τρίχα ἔχοντες ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ ὑπʼ ἀμουσίας καὶ οὔπω ἀποβεβληκότες, ἔτι δὲ βαρβαρίζοντες ἐληλύθασι κολακεύσοντες τὴν πόλιν ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἄρξοντες—πρὸς τούτους σε δεῖ, οὕσπερ λέγω, βλέποντα σαυτοῦ δὴ ἀμελεῖν, καὶ μήτε μανθάνειν ὅσα μαθήσεως ἔχεται, μέλλοντα τοσοῦτον ἀγῶνα ἀγωνίζεσθαι, μήτε ἀσκεῖν ὅσα δεῖται ἀσκήσεως,
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 148–150 · on 120b
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 150 · on 120b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 (from 119a)
καὶ πᾶσαν παρασκευὴν παρεσκευασμένον οὕτως ἰέναι ἐπὶ τὰ τῆς πόλεως.
ΑΛ.ἀλλʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες, δοκεῖς μέν μοι ἀληθῆ λέγειν, οἶμαι μέντοι τούς τε Λακεδαιμονίων στρατηγοὺς καὶ τὸν Περσῶν βασιλέα οὐδὲν διαφέρειν τῶν ἄλλων.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ, ὦ ἄριστε, τὴν οἴησιν ταύτην σκόπει οἵαν ἔχεις.
ΑΛ.τοῦ πέρι;
ΣΩ.πρῶτον μὲν ποτέρως ἂν οἴει σαυτοῦ μᾶλλον ἐπιμεληθῆναι,
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 150 · on 120c
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 150 · on 120c
Olympiodorus lecture 16, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 150 · on 120c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 16, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 142–146 (from 119a)
φοβούμενός τε καὶ οἰόμενος δεινοὺς αὐτοὺς εἶναι, ἢ μή;
ΑΛ.δῆλον ὅτι εἰ δεινοὺς οἰοίμην.
ΣΩ.μῶν οὖν οἴει τι βλαβήσεσθαι ἐπιμεληθεὶς σαυτοῦ;
ΑΛ.οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλὰ καὶ μεγάλα ὀνήσεσθαι.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἓν μὲν τοῦτο τοσοῦτον κακὸν ἔχει ἡ οἴησις αὕτη.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.τὸ δεύτερον τοίνυν, ὅτι καὶ ψευδής ἐστιν, ἐκ τῶν εἰκότων σκέψαι.
ΑΛ.πῶς δή;
ΣΩ.πότερον εἰκὸς ἀμείνους γίγνεσθαι φύσεις ἐν γενναίοις
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 · on 120d–122b
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 155–156 · on 120d
γένεσιν ἢ μή;
ΑΛ.δῆλον ὅτι ἐν τοῖς γενναίοις.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τοὺς εὖ φύντας, ἐὰν καὶ εὖ τραφῶσιν, οὕτω τελέους γίγνεσθαι πρὸς ἀρετήν;
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη.
ΣΩ.σκεψώμεθα δή, τοῖς ἐκείνων τὰ ἡμέτερα ἀντιτιθέντες, πρῶτον μὲν εἰ δοκοῦσι φαυλοτέρων γενῶν εἶναι οἱ Λακεδαιμονίων καὶ Περσῶν βασιλῆς. ἢ οὐκ ἴσμεν ὡς οἱ μὲν Ἡρακλέους, οἱ δὲ Ἀχαιμένους ἔκγονοι, τὸ δʼ Ἡρακλέους τε γένος καὶ τὸ Ἀχαιμένους εἰς Περσέα τὸν Διὸς ἀναφέρεται;
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 156–157 · on 120e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
ΑΛ.καὶ γὰρ τὸ ἡμέτερον, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἰς Εὐρυσάκη, τὸ δʼ Εὐρυσάκους εἰς Δία.
ΣΩ.καὶ γὰρ τὸ ἡμέτερον, ὦ γενναῖε Ἀλκιβιάδη, εἰς Δαίδαλον, ὁ δὲ Δαίδαλος εἰς Ἥφαιστον τὸν Διός. ἀλλὰ τὰ μὲν τούτων ἀπʼ αὐτῶν ἀρξάμενα βασιλῆς εἰσιν ἐκ βασιλέων μέχρι Διός, οἱ μὲν Ἄργους τε καὶ Λακεδαίμονος, οἱ δὲ τῆς Περσίδος τὸ ἀεί, πολλάκις δὲ καὶ τῆς Ἀσίας, ὥσπερ καὶ νῦν· ἡμεῖς δὲ αὐτοί τε ἰδιῶται καὶ οἱ πατέρες.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 157 · on 121a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
εἰ δὲ καὶ τοὺς προγόνους σε δέοι καὶ τὴν πατρίδα Εὐρυσάκους ἐπιδεῖξαι Σαλαμῖνα ἢ τὴν Αἰακοῦ τοῦ ἔτι προτέρου Αἴγιναν Ἀρτοξέρξῃ τῷ Ξέρξου, πόσον ἂν οἴει γέλωτα ὀφλεῖν; ἀλλʼ ὅρα μὴ τοῦ τε γένους ὄγκῳ ἐλαττώμεθα τῶν ἀνδρῶν καὶ τῇ ἄλλῃ τροφῇ. ἢ οὐκ ᾔσθησαι τοῖς τε Λακεδαιμονίων βασιλεῦσιν ὡς μεγάλα τὰ ὑπάρχοντα, ὧν αἱ γυναῖκες δημοσίᾳ φυλάττονται ὑπὸ τῶν ἐφόρων, ὅπως εἰς δύναμιν μὴ λάθῃ ἐξ ἄλλου γενόμενος ὁ βασιλεὺς ἢ ἐξ
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 157 · on 121b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
Ἡρακλειδῶν; ὁ δὲ Περσῶν τοσοῦτον ὑπερβάλλει, ὥστʼ οὐδεὶς ὑποψίαν ἔχει ὡς ἐξ ἄλλου ἂν βασιλεὺς γένοιτο ἢ ἐξ αὐτοῦ· διὸ οὐ φρουρεῖται ἡ βασιλέως γυνὴ ἀλλʼ ἢ ὑπὸ φόβου. ἐπειδὰν δὲ γένηται ὁ παῖς ὁ πρεσβύτατος, οὗπερ ἡ ἀρχή, πρῶτον μὲν ἑορτάζουσι πάντες οἱ ἐν τῇ βασιλέως, ὧν ἂν ἄρχῃ, εἶτα εἰς τὸν ἄλλον χρόνον ταύτῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ βασιλέως γενέθλια πᾶσα θύει καὶ ἑορτάζει ἡ Ἀσία· ἡμῶν
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 157 · on 121c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
δὲ γενομένων, τὸ τοῦ κωμῳδοποιοῦ, οὐδʼ οἱ γείτονες σφόδρα τι αἰσθάνονται, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη. μετὰ τοῦτο τρέφεται ὁ παῖς, οὐχ ὑπὸ γυναικὸς τροφοῦ ὀλίγου ἀξίας, ἀλλʼ ὑπʼ εὐνούχων οἳ ἂν δοκῶσιν τῶν περὶ βασιλέα ἄριστοι εἶναι· οἷς τά τε ἄλλα προστέτακται ἐπιμέλεσθαι τοῦ γενομένου, καὶ ὅπως ὅτι κάλλιστος ἔσται μηχανᾶσθαι, ἀναπλάττοντας τὰ μέλη τοῦ παιδὸς καὶ κατορθοῦντας· καὶ ταῦτα δρῶντες
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 157 · on 121d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
ἐν μεγάλῃ τιμῇ εἰσιν. ἐπειδὰν δὲ ἑπτέτεις γένωνται οἱ παῖδες, ἐπὶ τοὺς ἵππους καὶ ἐπὶ τοὺς τούτων διδασκάλους φοιτῶσιν, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰς θήρας ἄρχονται ἰέναι. δὶς ἑπτὰ δὲ γενόμενον ἐτῶν τὸν παῖδα παραλαμβάνουσιν οὓς ἐκεῖνοι βασιλείους παιδαγωγοὺς ὀνομάζουσιν· εἰσὶ δὲ ἐξειλεγμένοι Περσῶν οἱ ἄριστοι δόξαντες ἐν ἡλικίᾳ τέτταρες, ὅ τε σοφώτατος καὶ ὁ δικαιότατος καὶ ὁ σωφρονέστατος καὶ ὁ
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 158–159 · on 121e
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 159 · on 121e
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 159 · on 121e
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 159 · on 121e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
ἀνδρειότατος. ὧν ὁ μὲν μαγείαν τε διδάσκει τὴν Ζωροάστρου τοῦ Ὡρομάζου—ἔστι δὲ τοῦτο θεῶν θεραπεία—διδάσκει δὲ καὶ τὰ βασιλικά, ὁ δὲ δικαιότατος ἀληθεύειν διὰ παντὸς τοῦ βίου, ὁ δὲ σωφρονέστατος μηδʼ ὑπὸ μιᾶς ἄρχεσθαι τῶν ἡδονῶν, ἵνα ἐλεύθερος εἶναι ἐθίζηται καὶ ὄντως βασιλεύς, ἄρχων πρῶτον τῶν ἐν αὑτῷ ἀλλὰ μὴ δουλεύων, ὁ δὲ ἀνδρειότατος ἄφοβον καὶ ἀδεᾶ παρασκευάζων, ὡς ὅταν δείσῃ δοῦλον ὄντα· σοὶ δʼ, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη,
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 159 · on 122a
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 159 · on 122a
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 159–160 · on 122a
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 160 · on 122a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
Περικλῆς ἐπέστησε παιδαγωγὸν τῶν οἰκετῶν τὸν ἀχρειότατον ὑπὸ γήρως, Ζώπυρον τὸν Θρᾷκα. διῆλθον δὲ καὶ τὴν ἄλλην ἄν σοι τῶν ἀνταγωνιστῶν τροφήν τε καὶ παιδείαν, εἰ μὴ πολὺ ἔργον ἦν καὶ ἅμα ταῦθʼ ἱκανὰ δηλῶσαι καὶ τἆλλα ὅσα τούτοις ἀκόλουθα· τῆς δὲ σῆς γενέσεως, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, καὶ τροφῆς καὶ παιδείας, ἢ ἄλλου ὁτουοῦν Ἀθηναίων, ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν οὐδενὶ μέλει, εἰ μὴ εἴ τις ἐραστής σου τυγχάνει ὤν. εἰ δʼ αὖ ἐθέλεις εἰς πλούτους
Readers through the ages · 8
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 160 · on 122b
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 160 · on 122b
Olympiodorus lecture 17, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 160 · on 122b
Olympiodorus lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 · on 122b–124a
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 161–165 · on 122b
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 165 · on 122b–122c
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 165–166 · on 122b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 17, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 150–155 (from 120d)
ἀποβλέψαι καὶ τρυφὰς καὶ ἐσθῆτας ἱματίων θʼ ἕλξεις καὶ μύρων ἀλοιφὰς καὶ θεραπόντων πλήθους ἀκολουθίας τήν τε ἄλλην ἁβρότητα τὴν Περσῶν, αἰσχυνθείης ἂν ἐπὶ σεαυτῷ, αἰσθόμενος ὅσον αὐτῶν ἐλλείπεις. εἰ δʼ αὖ ἐθελήσεις εἰς σωφροσύνην τε καὶ κοσμιότητα ἀποβλέψαι καὶ εὐχέρειαν καὶ εὐκολίαν καὶ μεγαλοφροσύνην καὶ εὐταξίαν καὶ ἀνδρείαν καὶ καρτερίαν καὶ φιλοπονίαν καὶ φιλονικίαν καὶ φιλοτιμίας τὰς Λακεδαιμονίων, παῖδʼ ἂν ἡγήσαιο σαυτὸν πᾶσι τοῖς
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 166 · on 122c
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 166–167 · on 122c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b) · Olympiodorus, lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 165 (from 122b)
τοιούτοις. εἰ δʼ αὖ τι καὶ πλούτῳ προσέχεις καὶ κατὰ τοῦτο οἴει τι εἶναι, μηδὲ τοῦθʼ ἡμῖν ἄρρητον ἔστω, ἐάν πως αἴσθῃ οὗ εἶ. τοῦτο μὲν γὰρ εἰ ἐθέλεις εἰς τοὺς Λακεδαιμονίων πλούτους ἰδεῖν, γνώσῃ ὅτι πολὺ τἀνθάδε τῶν ἐκεῖ ἐλλείπει· γῆν μὲν γὰρ ὅσην ἔχουσιν τῆς θʼ ἑαυτῶν καὶ Μεσσήνης, οὐδʼ ἂν εἷς ἀμφισβητήσειε τῶν τῇδε πλήθει οὐδʼ ἀρετῇ, οὐδʼ αὖ ἀνδραπόδων κτήσει τῶν τε ἄλλων καὶ τῶν εἱλωτικῶν, οὐδὲ μὴν ἵππων γε, οὐδʼ ὅσα ἄλλα βοσκήματα
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 167 · on 122d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b)
κατὰ Μεσσήνην νέμεται. ἀλλὰ ταῦτα μὲν πάντα ἐῶ χαίρειν, χρυσίον δὲ καὶ ἀργύριον οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν πᾶσιν Ἕλλησιν ὅσον ἐν Λακεδαίμονι ἰδίᾳ· πολλὰς γὰρ ἤδη γενεὰς εἰσέρχεται μὲν αὐτόσε ἐξ ἁπάντων τῶν Ἑλλήνων, πολλάκις δὲ καὶ ἐκ τῶν βαρβάρων, ἐξέρχεται δὲ οὐδαμόσε,
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 167 · on 122e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b)
ἀλλʼ ἀτεχνῶς κατὰ τὸν Αἰσώπου μῦθον ὃν ἡ ἀλώπηξ πρὸς τὸν λέοντα εἶπεν, καὶ τοῦ εἰς Λακεδαίμονα νομίσματος εἰσιόντος μὲν τὰ ἴχνη τὰ ἐκεῖσε τετραμμένα δῆλα, ἐξιόντος δὲ οὐδαμῇ ἄν τις ἴδοι. ὥστε εὖ χρὴ εἰδέναι ὅτι καὶ χρυσῷ καὶ ἀργύρῳ οἱ ἐκεῖ πλουσιώτατοί εἰσιν τῶν Ἑλλήνων, καὶ αὐτῶν ἐκείνων ὁ βασιλεύς· ἔκ τε γὰρ τῶν τοιούτων μέγισται λήψεις καὶ πλεῖσταί εἰσι τοῖς βασιλεῦσιν, ἔτι δὲ καὶ ὁ βασιλικὸς φόρος οὐκ ὀλίγος γίγνεται, ὃν τελοῦσιν οἱ Λακεδαιμόνιοι
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 167 · on 123a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b)
τοῖς βασιλεῦσιν. καὶ τὰ μὲν Λακεδαιμονίων ὡς πρὸς Ἑλληνικοὺς μὲν πλούτους μεγάλα, ὡς δὲ πρὸς τοὺς Περσικοὺς καὶ τοῦ ἐκείνων βασιλέως οὐδέν. ἐπεί ποτʼ ἐγὼ ἤκουσα ἀνδρὸς ἀξιοπίστου τῶν ἀναβεβηκότων παρὰ βασιλέα, ὃς ἔφη παρελθεῖν χώραν πάνυ πολλὴν καὶ ἀγαθήν, ἐγγὺς ἡμερησίαν ὁδόν, ἣν καλεῖν τοὺς ἐπιχωρίους ζώνην τῆς βασιλέως γυναικός· εἶναι δὲ καὶ ἄλλην ἣν αὖ καλεῖσθαι
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 167–168 · on 123b
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 168 · on 123b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b)
καλύπτραν, καὶ ἄλλους πολλοὺς τόπους καλοὺς καὶ ἀγαθοὺς εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἐξῃρημένους τὸν τῆς γυναικός, καὶ ὀνόματα ἔχειν ἑκάστους τῶν τόπων ἀπὸ ἑκάστου τῶν κόσμων. ὥστʼ οἶμαι ἐγώ, εἴ τις εἴποι τῇ βασιλέως μητρί, Ξέρξου δὲ γυναικί, Ἀμήστριδι, ὅτι ἐν νῷ ἔχει σοῦ τῷ ὑεῖ ἀντιτάττεσθαι ὁ Δεινομάχης ὑός, ᾗ ἔστι κόσμος ἴσως ἄξιος μνῶν πεντήκοντα εἰ πάνυ πολλοῦ, τῷ δʼ ὑεῖ αὐτῆς γῆς πλέθρα Ἐρχίασιν οὐδὲ τριακόσια, θαυμάσαι ἂν ὅτῳ ποτὲ πιστεύων
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 168–169 · on 123c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b)
ἐν νῷ ἔχει οὗτος ὁ Ἀλκιβιάδης τῷ Ἀρτοξέρξῃ διαγωνίζεσθαι, καὶ οἶμαι ἂν αὐτὴν εἰπεῖν ὅτι οὐκ ἔσθʼ ὅτῳ ἄλλῳ πιστεύων οὗτος ἀνὴρ ἐπιχειρεῖ πλὴν ἐπιμελείᾳ τε καὶ σοφίᾳ· ταῦτα γὰρ μόνα ἄξια λόγου ἐν Ἕλλησιν. ἐπεὶ εἴ γε πύθοιτο ὅτι Ἀλκιβιάδης οὗτος νῦν ἐπιχειρεῖ πρῶτον μὲν ἔτη οὐδέπω γεγονὼς σφόδρα εἴκοσιν, ἔπειτα παντάπασιν ἀπαίδευτος, πρὸς δὲ τούτοις, τοῦ ἐραστοῦ αὐτῷ λέγοντος ὅτι χρὴ πρῶτον μαθόντα καὶ ἐπιμεληθέντα αὑτοῦ
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 169 · on 123d
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 169 · on 123d–123e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b)
καὶ ἀσκήσαντα οὕτως ἰέναι διαγωνιούμενον βασιλεῖ, οὐκ ἐθέλει, ἀλλά φησιν ἐξαρκεῖν καὶ ὡς ἔχει, οἶμαι ἂν αὐτὴν θαυμάσαι τε καὶ ἐρέσθαι· "τί οὖν ποτʼ ἔστιν ὅτῳ πιστεύει τὸ μειράκιον "; εἰ οὖν λέγοιμεν ὅτι κάλλει τε καὶ μεγέθει καὶ γένει καὶ πλούτῳ καὶ φύσει τῆς ψυχῆς, ἡγήσαιτʼ ἂν ἡμᾶς, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, μαίνεσθαι πρὸς τὰ παρὰ σφίσιν ἀποβλέψασα πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα. οἶμαι δὲ κἂν Λαμπιδώ, τὴν
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 169 · on 123e–124a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b) · Olympiodorus, lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 169 (from 123d)
Λεωτυχίδου μὲν θυγατέρα, Ἀρχιδάμου δὲ γυναῖκα, Ἄγιδος δὲ μητέρα, οἳ πάντες βασιλῆς γεγόνασιν, θαυμάσαι ἂν καὶ ταύτην εἰς τὰ παρὰ σφίσιν ὑπάρχοντα ἀποβλέψασαν, εἰ σὺ ἐν νῷ ἔχεις τῷ ὑεῖ αὐτῆς διαγωνίζεσθαι οὕτω κακῶς ἠγμένος. καίτοι οὐκ αἰσχρὸν δοκεῖ εἶναι, εἰ αἱ τῶν πολεμίων γυναῖκες βέλτιον περὶ ἡμῶν διανοοῦνται, οἵους χρὴ ὄντας σφίσιν ἐπιχειρεῖν, ἢ ἡμεῖς περὶ ἡμῶν αὐτῶν; ἀλλʼ, ὦ μακάριε, πειθόμενος ἐμοί τε καὶ τῷ ἐν Δελφοῖς γράμματι, γνῶθι
Readers through the ages · 6
Olympiodorus lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 169 · on 124a
Olympiodorus lecture 19, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 170–171 · on 124a–124d
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 171–173 · on 124a–124b
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 173–174 · on 124a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 18, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 160–161 (from 122b) · Olympiodorus, lecture 18, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 169 (from 123e)
σαυτόν, ὅτι οὗτοι ἡμῖν εἰσιν ἀντίπαλοι, ἀλλʼ οὐχ οὓς σὺ οἴει· ὧν ἄλλῳ μὲν οὐδʼ ἂν ἑνὶ περιγενοίμεθα, εἰ μή περ ἐπιμελείᾳ γε ἂν καὶ τέχνῃ. ὧν σὺ εἰ ἀπολειφθήσῃ, καὶ τοῦ ὀνομαστὸς γενέσθαι ἀπολειφθήσῃ ἐν Ἕλλησί τε καὶ βαρβάροις, οὗ μοι δοκεῖς ἐρᾶν ὡς οὐδεὶς ἄλλος ἄλλου.
ΑΛ.τίνα οὖν χρὴ τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ποιεῖσθαι; ἔχεις ἐξηγήσασθαι; παντὸς γὰρ μᾶλλον ἔοικας ἀληθῆ εἰρηκότι.
ΣΩ.ναί· ἀλλὰ γὰρ κοινὴ βουλὴ ᾧτινι τρόπῳ ἂν ὅτι
Readers through the ages · 6
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 174 · on 124b
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 174–175 · on 124b
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 175 · on 124b
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 175 · on 124b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 19, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 170–171 (from 124a) · Olympiodorus, lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 171–173 (from 124a)
βέλτιστοι γενοίμεθα. ἐγὼ γάρ τοι οὐ περὶ μὲν σοῦ λέγω ὡς χρὴ παιδευθῆναι, περὶ ἐμοῦ δὲ οὔ· οὐ γὰρ ἔσθʼ ὅτῳ σου διαφέρω πλήν γʼ ἑνί.
ΑΛ.τίνι;
ΣΩ.ὁ ἐπίτροπος ὁ ἐμὸς βελτίων ἐστὶ καὶ σοφώτερος ἢ Περικλῆς ὁ σός.
ΑΛ.τίς οὗτος, ὦ Σώκρατες;
ΣΩ.θεός, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, ὅσπερ σοί με οὐκ εἴα πρὸ τῆσδε τῆς ἡμέρας διαλεχθῆναι· ᾧ καὶ πιστεύων λέγω ὅτι ἡ ἐπιφάνεια διʼ οὐδενὸς ἄλλου σοι ἔσται ἢ διʼ ἐμοῦ.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 175 · on 124c
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 175–176 · on 124c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 19, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 170–171 (from 124a)
ΑΛ.παίζεις, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.ἴσως· λέγω μέντοι ἀληθῆ, ὅτι ἐπιμελείας δεόμεθα, μᾶλλον μὲν πάντες ἄνθρωποι, ἀτὰρ νώ γε καὶ μάλα σφόδρα.
ΑΛ.ὅτι μὲν ἐγώ, οὐ ψεύδῃ.
ΣΩ.οὐδὲ μὴν ὅτι γε ἐγώ.
ΑΛ.τί οὖν ἂν ποιοῖμεν;
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἀπορρητέον οὐδὲ μαλθακιστέον, ὦ ἑταῖρε.
ΑΛ.οὔτοι δὴ πρέπει γʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.οὐ γάρ, ἀλλὰ σκεπτέον κοινῇ. καί μοι λέγε·
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 176 · on 124d
Olympiodorus lecture 19, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 176 · on 124d
Olympiodorus lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 · on 124d–126c
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 180 · on 124d–124e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 19, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 170–171 (from 124a)
φαμὲν γὰρ δὴ ὡς ἄριστοι βούλεσθαι γενέσθαι. ἦ γάρ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τίνα ἀρετήν;
ΑΛ.δῆλον ὅτι ἥνπερ οἱ ἄνδρες οἱ ἀγαθοί.
ΣΩ.οἱ τί ἀγαθοί;
ΑΛ.δῆλον ὅτι οἱ πράττειν τὰ πράγματα.
ΣΩ.ποῖα; ἆρα τὰ ἱππικά;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.παρὰ τοὺς ἱππικοὺς γὰρ ἂν ᾖμεν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ τὰ ναυτικὰ λέγεις;
ΑΛ.οὔ.
ΣΩ.παρὰ τοὺς ναυτικοὺς γὰρ ἂν ᾖμεν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ ποῖα; ἃ τίνες πράττουσιν;
ΑΛ.ἅπερ Ἀθηναίων οἱ καλοὶ κἀγαθοί.
Readers through the ages · 7
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 180–181 · on 124e
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 181 · on 124e
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 181 · on 124e
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 181 · on 124e
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 181 · on 124e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d) · Olympiodorus, lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 180 (from 124d)
ΣΩ.καλοὺς δὲ κἀγαθοὺς λέγεις τοὺς φρονίμους ἢ τοὺς ἄφρονας;
ΑΛ.τοὺς φρονίμους.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὃ ἕκαστος φρόνιμος, τοῦτʼ ἀγαθός;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ὃ δὲ ἄφρων, πονηρός;
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν ὁ σκυτοτόμος φρόνιμος εἰς ὑποδημάτων ἐργασίαν;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἀγαθὸς ἄρʼ εἰς αὐτά;
ΑΛ.ἀγαθός.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ; εἰς ἱματίων ἐργασίαν οὐκ ἄφρων ὁ σκυτοτόμος;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
ΣΩ.κακὸς ἄρα εἰς τοῦτο;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ὁ αὐτὸς ἄρα τούτῳ γε τῷ λόγῳ κακός τε καὶ ἀγαθός.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ἦ οὖν λέγεις τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς ἄνδρας εἶναι καὶ κακούς;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ τίνας ποτὲ τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς λέγεις;
ΑΛ.τοὺς δυναμένους ἔγωγε ἄρχειν ἐν τῇ πόλει.
ΣΩ.οὐ δήπου ἵππων γε;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ ἀνθρώπων;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἆρα καμνόντων;
ΑΛ.οὔ.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ πλεόντων;
ΑΛ.οὔ φημι.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ θεριζόντων;
ΑΛ.οὔ.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 181 · on 125b
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 181–182 · on 125b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ οὐδὲν ποιούντων ἤ τι ποιούντων;
ΑΛ.ποιούντων λέγω.
ΣΩ.τί; πειρῶ καὶ ἐμοὶ δηλῶσαι.
ΑΛ.οὐκοῦν τῶν καὶ συμβαλλόντων ἑαυτοῖς καὶ χρωμένων ἀλλήλοις, ὥσπερ ἡμεῖς ζῶμεν ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἀνθρώπων λέγεις ἄρχειν ἀνθρώποις χρωμένων;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἆρα κελευστῶν χρωμένων ἐρέταις;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.κυβερνητικὴ γὰρ αὕτη γε ἀρετή;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ ἀνθρώπων λέγεις ἄρχειν αὐλητῶν, ἀνθρώποις
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 182 · on 125c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
ἡγουμένων ᾠδῆς καὶ χρωμένων χορευταῖς;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.χοροδιδασκαλικὴ γὰρ αὕτη γʼ αὖ;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ τί ποτε λέγεις χρωμένων ἀνθρώπων ἀνθρώποις οἷόν τʼ εἶναι ἄρχειν;
ΑΛ.κοινωνούντων ἔγωγε λέγω πολιτείας καὶ συμβαλλόντων πρὸς ἀλλήλους, τούτων ἄρχειν τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει.
ΣΩ.τίς οὖν αὕτη ἡ τέχνη; ὥσπερ ἂν εἴ σε ἐροίμην πάλιν τὰ νυνδή, κοινωνούντων ναυτιλίας ἐπίστασθαι ἄρχειν τίς ποιεῖ τέχνη;
ΑΛ.κυβερνητική.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 182 · on 125d
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 182 · on 125d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
ΣΩ.κοινωνούντων δʼ ᾠδῆς, ὡς νυνδὴ ἐλέγετο, τις ἐπιστήμη ποιεῖ ἄρχειν;
ΑΛ.ἥνπερ σὺ ἄρτι ἔλεγες, ἡ χοροδιδασκαλία.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; πολιτείας κοινωνούντων τίνα καλεῖς ἐπιστήμην;
ΑΛ.εὐβουλίαν ἔγωγε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; μῶν ἀβουλία δοκεῖ εἶναι ἡ τῶν κυβερνητῶν;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ εὐβουλία;
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 182 · on 125e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ, εἴς γε τὸ σῴζεσθαι πλέοντας.
ΣΩ.καλῶς λέγεις. τί δέ; ἣν σὺ λέγεις εὐβουλίαν, εἰς τί ἐστιν;
ΑΛ.εἰς τὸ ἄμεινον τὴν πόλιν διοικεῖν καὶ σῴζεσθαι.
ΣΩ.ἄμεινον δὲ διοικεῖται καὶ σῴζεται τίνος παραγιγνομένου ἢ ἀπογιγνομένου; ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ σύ με ἔροιο· "ἄμεινον διοικεῖται σῶμα καὶ σῴζεται τίνος παραγιγνομένου ἢ ἀπογιγνομένου "; εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὅτι ὑγιείας μὲν παραγιγνομένης, νόσου δὲ ἀπογιγνομένης. οὐ καὶ σὺ οἴει οὕτως;
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 182–183 · on 126a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ εἴ μʼ αὖ ἔροιο· "τίνος δὲ παραγιγνομένου ἄμεινον ὄμματα "; ὡσαύτως εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὅτι ὄψεως μὲν παραγιγνομένης, τυφλότητος δὲ ἀπογιγνομένης. καὶ ὦτα δὲ κωφότητος μὲν ἀπογιγνομένης, ἀκοῆς δὲ ἐγγιγνομένης βελτίω τε γίγνεται καὶ ἄμεινον θεραπεύεται.
ΑΛ.ὀρθῶς.
ΣΩ.τί δὲ δή; πόλις τίνος παραγιγνομένου καὶ ἀπογιγνομένου βελτίων τε γίγνεται καὶ ἄμεινον θεραπεύεται καὶ διοικεῖται;
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 183 · on 126b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
ΑΛ.ἐμοὶ μὲν δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅταν φιλία μὲν αὐτοῖς γίγνηται πρὸς ἀλλήλους, τὸ μισεῖν δὲ καὶ στασιάζειν ἀπογίγνηται.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν φιλίαν λέγεις ὁμόνοιαν ἢ διχόνοιαν;
ΑΛ.ὁμόνοιαν.
ΣΩ.διὰ τίνʼ οὖν τέχνην ὁμονοοῦσιν αἱ πόλεις περὶ ἀριθμούς;
ΑΛ.διὰ τὴν ἀριθμητικήν.
ΣΩ.τί δὲ οἱ ἰδιῶται; οὐ διὰ τὴν αὐτήν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ αὐτὸς αὑτῷ ἕκαστος;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.διὰ τίνα δὲ τέχνην ἕκαστος αὐτὸς αὑτῷ ὁμονοεῖ
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 20, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 183 · on 126c
Olympiodorus lecture 21, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 183–185 · on 126c–127b
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 185 · on 126c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 20, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 177–180 (from 124d)
περὶ σπιθαμῆς καὶ πήχεος ὁπότερον μεῖζον; οὐ διὰ τὴν μετρητικήν;
ΑΛ.τί μήν;
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ οἱ ἰδιῶται ἀλλήλοις καὶ αἱ πόλεις;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; περὶ σταθμοῦ οὐχ ὡσαύτως;
ΑΛ.φημί.
ΣΩ.ἣν δὲ δὴ σὺ λέγεις ὁμόνοιαν, τίς ἐστι καὶ περὶ τοῦ, καὶ τίς αὐτὴν τέχνη παρασκευάζει; καὶ ἆρα ἥπερ πόλει, αὑτὴ καὶ ἰδιώτῃ, αὐτῷ τε πρὸς αὑτὸν καὶ πρὸς ἄλλον;
ΑΛ.εἰκός γέ τοι.
ΣΩ.τίς οὖν ἔστι; μὴ κάμῃς ἀποκρινόμενος, ἀλλὰ
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 185–186 · on 126d
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 186 · on 126d
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 186–188 · on 126d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 21, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 183–185 (from 126c)
προθυμοῦ εἰπεῖν.
ΑΛ.ἐγὼ μὲν οἶμαι φιλίαν τε λέγειν καὶ ὁμόνοιαν, ἥνπερ πατήρ τε ὑὸν φιλῶν ὁμονοεῖ καὶ μήτηρ, καὶ ἀδελφὸς ἀδελφῷ καὶ γυνὴ ἀνδρί.
ΣΩ.οἴει ἂν οὖν, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, ἄνδρα γυναικὶ περὶ ταλασιουργίας δύνασθαι ὁμονοεῖν, τὸν μὴ ἐπιστάμενον τῇ ἐπισταμένῃ;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.οὐδέ γε δεῖ οὐδέν· γυναικεῖον γὰρ τοῦτό γε μάθημα.
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 188 · on 126e
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 188 · on 126e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 21, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 183–185 (from 126c)
ΣΩ.τί δέ; γυνὴ ἀνδρὶ περὶ ὁπλιτικῆς δύναιτʼ ἂν ὁμονοεῖν μὴ μαθοῦσα;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.ἀνδρεῖον γὰρ τοῦτό γε ἴσως αὖ φαίης ἂν εἶναι.
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.ἔστιν ἄρα τὰ μὲν γυναικεῖα, τὰ δὲ ἀνδρεῖα μαθήματα κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον.
ΑΛ.πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα ἔν γε τούτοις ἐστὶν ὁμόνοια γυναιξὶ πρὸς ἄνδρας.
ΑΛ.οὔ.
ΣΩ.οὐδʼ ἄρα φιλία, εἴπερ ἡ φιλία ὁμόνοια ἦν.
ΑΛ.οὐ φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ἧι ἄρα αἱ γυναῖκες τὰ αὑτῶν πράττουσιν, οὐ φιλοῦνται ὑπὸ τῶν ἀνδρῶν.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 188–189 · on 127a
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 189 · on 127a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 21, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 183–185 (from 126c)
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔοικεν.
ΣΩ.οὐδʼ ἄρα οἱ ἄνδρες ὑπὸ τῶν γυναικῶν ᾗ τὰ αὑτῶν.
ΑΛ.οὔ.
ΣΩ.οὐδʼ εὖ ἄρα ταύτῃ οἰκοῦνται αἱ πόλεις, ὅταν τὰ αὑτῶν ἕκαστοι πράττωσιν;
ΑΛ.οἶμαι ἔγωγε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.πῶς λέγεις, φιλίας μὴ παρούσης, ἧς ἔφαμεν ἐγγιγνομένης εὖ οἰκεῖσθαι τὰς πόλεις, ἄλλως δʼ οὔ;
ΑΛ.ἀλλά μοι δοκεῖ καὶ κατὰ τοῦτʼ αὐτοῖς φιλία ἐγγίγνεσθαι, ὅτι τὰ αὑτῶν ἑκάτεροι πράττουσιν.
Readers through the ages · 6
Olympiodorus lecture 21, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 189–192 · on 127b
Olympiodorus lecture 22, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 192–195 · on 127b–127e
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 195–196 · on 127b
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 196 · on 127b
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 196 · on 127b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 21, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 183–185 (from 126c)
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρτι γε· νῦν δὲ πῶς αὖ λέγεις; ὁμονοίας μὴ ἐγγιγνομένης φιλία ἐγγίγνεται; ἢ οἷόν θʼ ὁμόνοιαν ἐγγίγνεσθαι [περὶ] [τούτων] ὧν οἱ μὲν ἴσασι περὶ τούτων, οἱ δʼ οὔ;
ΑΛ.ἀδύνατον.
ΣΩ.δίκαια δὲ πράττουσιν ἢ ἄδικα, ὅταν τὰ αὑτῶν ἕκαστοι πράττωσιν;
ΑΛ.δίκαια· πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.τὰ δίκαια οὖν πραττόντων ἐν τῇ πόλει τῶν πολιτῶν φιλία οὐκ ἐγγίγνεται πρὸς ἀλλήλους;
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη αὖ μοι δοκεῖ εἶναι, ὦ Σώκρατες.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 196 · on 127c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 22, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 192–195 (from 127b)
ΣΩ.τίνα οὖν ποτε λέγεις τὴν φιλίαν ἢ ὁμόνοιαν περὶ ἧς δεῖ ἡμᾶς σοφούς τε εἶναι καὶ εὐβούλους, ἵνα ἀγαθοὶ ἄνδρες ὦμεν; οὐ γὰρ δύναμαι μαθεῖν οὔθʼ ἥτις οὔτʼ ἐν οἷστισιν· τοτὲ μὲν γὰρ ἐν τοῖς αὐτοῖς φαίνεται ἐνοῦσα, τοτὲ δʼ οὔ, ὡς ἐκ τοῦ σοῦ λόγου.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ μὰ τοὺς θεούς, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐδʼ αὐτὸς οἶδʼ ὅτι λέγω, κινδυνεύω δὲ καὶ πάλαι λεληθέναι ἐμαυτὸν αἴσχιστα ἔχων.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ χρὴ θαρρεῖν. εἰ μὲν γὰρ αὐτὸ ᾔσθου πεπονθὼς
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 196 · on 127d
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 196 · on 127d
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 196–197 · on 127d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 22, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 192–195 (from 127b)
πεντηκονταετής, χαλεπὸν ἂν ἦν σοι ἐπιμεληθῆναι σαυτοῦ· νῦν δʼ ἣν ἔχεις ἡλικίαν, αὕτη ἐστὶν ἐν ᾗ δεῖ αὐτὸ αἰσθέσθαι.
ΑΛ.τί οὖν τὸν αἰσθανόμενον χρὴ ποιεῖν, ὦ Σώκρατες;
ΣΩ.ἀποκρίνεσθαι τὰ ἐρωτώμενα, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη· καὶ ἐὰν τοῦτο ποιῇς, ἂν θεὸς θέλῃ, εἴ τι δεῖ καὶ τῇ ἐμῇ μαντείᾳ πιστεύειν, σύ τε κἀγὼ βέλτιον σχήσομεν.
ΑΛ.ἔσται ταῦτα ἕνεκά γε τοῦ ἐμὲ ἀποκρίνεσθαι.
ΣΩ.φέρε δή, τί ἐστιν τὸ ἑαυτοῦ ἐπιμελεῖσθαι—μὴ πολλάκις
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 22, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 197 · on 127e
Olympiodorus lecture 23, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 197–199 · on 127e–129a
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 199 · on 127e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 22, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 192–195 (from 127b)
λάθωμεν οὐχ ἡμῶν αὐτῶν ἐπιμελούμενοι, οἰόμενοι δέ—καὶ πότʼ ἄρα αὐτὸ ποιεῖ ἅνθρωπος; ἆρʼ ὅταν τῶν αὑτοῦ ἐπιμελῆται, τότε καὶ αὑτοῦ;
ΑΛ.ἐμοὶ γοῦν δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; ποδῶν ἅνθρωπος ποτε ἐπιμελεῖται; ἆρʼ ὅταν ἐκείνων ἐπιμελῆται ἅ ἐστι τῶν ποδῶν;
ΑΛ.οὐ μανθάνω.
ΣΩ.καλεῖς δέ τι χειρός; οἷον δακτύλιον ἔστιν ὅτου ἂν ἄλλου τῶν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου φαίης ἢ δακτύλου;
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ ποδὸς ὑπόδημα τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ ἱμάτια καὶ στρώματα τοῦ ἄλλου σώματος ὁμοίως;
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 199 · on 128a
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 199 · on 128a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 23, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 197–199 (from 127e)
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν ὅταν ὑποδημάτων ἐπιμελώμεθα, τότε ποδῶν ἐπιμελούμεθα;
ΑΛ.οὐ πάνυ μανθάνω, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.τί δέ, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη; ὀρθῶς ἐπιμελεῖσθαι καλεῖς τι ὁτουοῦν πράγματος;
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν ὅταν τίς τι βέλτιον ποιῇ, τότε ὀρθὴν λέγεις ἐπιμέλειαν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τίς οὖν τέχνη ὑποδήματα βελτίω ποιεῖ;
ΑΛ.σκυτική.
ΣΩ.σκυτικῇ ἄρα ὑποδημάτων ἐπιμελούμεθα;
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 199–200 · on 128b
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 200 · on 128b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 23, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 197–199 (from 127e)
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἦ καὶ ποδὸς σκυτικῇ; ἢ ἐκείνῃ ᾗ πόδας βελτίους ποιοῦμεν;
ΑΛ.ἐκείνῃ.
ΣΩ.βελτίους δὲ πόδας οὐχ ᾗπερ καὶ τὸ ἄλλο σῶμα;
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.αὕτη δʼ οὐ γυμναστική;
ΑΛ.μάλιστα.
ΣΩ.γυμναστικῇ μὲν ἄρα ποδὸς ἐπιμελούμεθα, σκυτικῇ δὲ τῶν τοῦ ποδός;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.καὶ γυμναστικῇ μὲν χειρῶν, δακτυλιογλυφίᾳ δὲ τῶν τῆς χειρός;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ γυμναστικῇ μὲν σώματος, ὑφαντικῇ δὲ καὶ ταῖς
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 200–201 · on 128c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 23, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 197–199 (from 127e)
ἄλλαις τῶν τοῦ σώματος;
ΑΛ.παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
ΣΩ.ἄλλῃ μὲν ἄρα τέχνῃ αὐτοῦ ἑκάστου ἐπιμελούμεθα, ἄλλῃ δὲ τῶν αὐτοῦ.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα ὅταν τῶν σαυτοῦ ἐπιμελῇ, σαυτοῦ ἐπιμελῇ.
ΑΛ.οὐδαμῶς.
ΣΩ.οὐ γὰρ ἡ αὐτὴ τέχνη, ὡς ἔοικεν, ᾗ τις ἂν αὑτοῦ τε ἐπιμελοῖτο καὶ τῶν αὑτοῦ.
ΑΛ.οὐ φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.φέρε δή, ποίᾳ ποτʼ ἂν ἡμῶν αὐτῶν ἐπιμεληθείημεν;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔχω λέγειν.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 23, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 197–199 (from 127e)
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ τοσόνδε γε ὡμολόγηται, ὅτι οὐχ ᾗ ἂν τῶν ἡμετέρων καὶ ὁτιοῦν βέλτιον ποιοῖμεν, ἀλλʼ ᾗ ἡμᾶς αὐτούς;
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.ἦ οὖν ἔγνωμεν ἄν ποτε τίς τέχνη ὑπόδημα βέλτιον ποιεῖ, μὴ εἰδότες ὑπόδημα;
ΑΛ.ἀδύνατον.
ΣΩ.οὐδέ γε τίς τέχνη δακτυλίους βελτίους ποιεῖ, ἀγνοοῦντες δακτύλιον.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ.
ΣΩ.τί δέ; τίς τέχνη βελτίω ποιεῖ αὐτόν, ἆρʼ ἄν ποτε γνοῖμεν ἀγνοοῦντες τί ποτʼ ἐσμὲν αὐτοί;
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 23, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 197–199 (from 127e)
ΑΛ.ἀδύνατον.
ΣΩ.πότερον οὖν δὴ ῥᾴδιον τυγχάνει τὸ γνῶναι ἑαυτόν, καί τις ἦν φαῦλος ὁ τοῦτο ἀναθεὶς εἰς τὸν ἐν Πυθοῖ νεών, ἢ χαλεπόν τι καὶ οὐχὶ παντός;
ΑΛ.ἐμοὶ μέν, ὦ Σώκρατες, πολλάκις μὲν ἔδοξε παντὸς εἶναι, πολλάκις δὲ παγχάλεπον.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, εἴτε ῥᾴδιον εἴτε μή ἐστιν, ὅμως γε ἡμῖν ὧδʼ ἔχει· γνόντες μὲν αὐτὸ τάχʼ ἂν γνοῖμεν τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν ἡμῶν αὐτῶν, ἀγνοοῦντες δὲ οὐκ ἄν ποτε.
ΑΛ.ἔστι ταῦτα.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 201 · on 129a
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 201 · on 129a
Olympiodorus lecture 23, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 201 · on 129a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 23, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 197–199 (from 127e)
ΣΩ.φέρε δή, τίνʼ ἂν τρόπον εὑρεθείη αὐτὸ ταὐτό; οὕτω μὲν γὰρ ἂν τάχʼ εὕροιμεν τί ποτʼ ἐσμὲν αὐτοί, τούτου δʼ ἔτι ὄντες ἐν ἀγνοίᾳ ἀδύνατοί που.
ΑΛ.ὀρθῶς λέγεις.
ΣΩ.ἔχε οὖν πρὸς Διός. τῷ διαλέγῃ σὺ νῦν; ἄλλο τι ἢ ἐμοί;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ ἐγὼ σοί;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.Σωκράτης ἄρʼ ἐστὶν ὁ διαλεγόμενος;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.Ἀλκιβιάδης δʼ ὁ ἀκούων;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν λόγῳ διαλέγεται ὁ Σωκράτης;
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 24, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 201–205 · on 129b–129e
Olympiodorus lecture 24, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 205 · on 129b
Olympiodorus lecture 24, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 205–206 · on 129b
ΑΛ.τί μήν;
ΣΩ.τὸ δὲ διαλέγεσθαι καὶ τὸ λόγῳ χρῆσθαι ταὐτόν που καλεῖς.
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ὁ δὲ χρώμενος καὶ ᾧ χρῆται οὐκ ἄλλο;
ΑΛ.πῶς λέγεις;
ΣΩ.ὥσπερ σκυτοτόμος τέμνει που τομεῖ καὶ σμίλῃ καὶ ἄλλοις ὀργάνοις.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἄλλο μὲν ὁ τέμνων καὶ χρώμενος, ἄλλο δὲ οἷς τέμνων χρῆται;
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν οὕτως καὶ οἷς ὁ κιθαριστὴς κιθαρίζει καὶ αὐτὸς ὁ κιθαριστὴς ἄλλο ἂν εἴη;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 24, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 206 · on 129c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 24, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 201–205 (from 129b)
ΣΩ.τοῦτο τοίνυν ἀρτίως ἠρώτων, εἰ ὁ χρώμενος καὶ ᾧ χρῆται ἀεὶ δοκεῖ ἕτερον εἶναι.
ΑΛ.δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.τί οὖν φῶμεν τὸν σκυτοτόμον; τέμνειν ὀργάνοις μόνον ἢ καὶ χερσίν;
ΑΛ.καὶ χερσίν.
ΣΩ.χρῆται ἄρα καὶ ταύταις;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἦ καὶ τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς χρώμενος σκυτοτομεῖ;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τὸν δὲ χρώμενον καὶ οἷς χρῆται ἕτερα ὁμολογοῦμεν;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἕτερον ἄρα σκυτοτόμος καὶ κιθαριστὴς χειρῶν καὶ
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 24, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 206 · on 129d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 24, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 201–205 (from 129b)
ὀφθαλμῶν οἷς ἐργάζονται;
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καὶ παντὶ τῷ σώματι χρῆται ἅνθρωπος;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἕτερον δʼ ἦν τό τε χρώμενον καὶ ᾧ χρῆται;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.ἕτερον ἄρα ἅνθρωπός ἐστι τοῦ σώματος τοῦ ἑαυτοῦ;
ΑΛ.ἔοικεν.
ΣΩ.τί ποτʼ οὖν ὁ ἄνθρωπος;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔχω λέγειν.
ΣΩ.ἔχεις μὲν οὖν, ὅτι γε τὸ τῷ σώματι χρώμενον.
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 3
Marsilio Ficino the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation · on 129e–133c
Olympiodorus lecture 24, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 206 · on 129e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 24, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 201–205 (from 129b)
ΣΩ.ἦ οὖν ἄλλο τι χρῆται αὐτῷ ἢ ψυχή;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἄλλο.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἄρχουσα;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.καὶ μὴν τόδε γʼ οἶμαι οὐδένα ἂν ἄλλως οἰηθῆναι.
ΑΛ.τὸ ποῖον;
ΣΩ.μὴ οὐ τριῶν ἕν γέ τι εἶναι τὸν ἄνθρωπον.
ΑΛ.τίνων;
ΣΩ.ψυχὴν ἢ σῶμα ἢ συναμφότερον, τὸ ὅλον τοῦτο.
ΑΛ.τί μήν;
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μὴν αὐτό γε τὸ τοῦ σώματος ἄρχον ὡμολογήσαμεν ἄνθρωπον εἶναι;
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 25, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 207–209 · on 130a–130d
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e)
ΑΛ.ὡμολογήσαμεν.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν σῶμα αὐτὸ αὑτοῦ ἄρχει;
ΑΛ.οὐδαμῶς.
ΣΩ.ἄρχεσθαι γὰρ αὐτὸ εἴπομεν.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἂν δὴ τοῦτό γε εἴη ὃ ζητοῦμεν.
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔοικεν.
ΣΩ.ἀλλʼ ἄρα τὸ συναμφότερον τοῦ σώματος ἄρχει, καὶ ἔστι δὴ τοῦτο ἄνθρωπος;
ΑΛ.ἴσως δῆτα.
ΣΩ.πάντων γε ἥκιστα· μὴ γὰρ συνάρχοντος τοῦ ἑτέρου οὐδεμία που μηχανὴ τὸ συναμφότερον ἄρχειν.
ΑΛ.ὀρθῶς.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 25, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 209 · on 130b
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e) · Olympiodorus, lecture 25, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 207–209 (from 130a)
ΣΩ.ἐπειδὴ δʼ οὔτε σῶμα οὔτε τὸ συναμφότερόν ἐστιν ἄνθρωπος, λείπεται οἶμαι ἢ μηδὲν αὔτʼ εἶναι, ἢ εἴπερ τί ἐστι, μηδὲν ἄλλο τὸν ἄνθρωπον συμβαίνειν ἢ ψυχήν.
ΑΛ.κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν.
ΣΩ.ἔτι οὖν τι σαφέστερον δεῖ ἀποδειχθῆναί σοι ὅτι ἡ ψυχή ἐστιν ἄνθρωπος;
ΑΛ.μὰ Δία, ἀλλʼ ἱκανῶς μοι δοκεῖ ἔχειν.
ΣΩ.εἰ δέ γε μὴ ἀκριβῶς ἀλλὰ καὶ μετρίως, ἐξαρκεῖ ἡμῖν· ἀκριβῶς μὲν γὰρ τότε εἰσόμεθα, ὅταν εὕρωμεν ὃ νυνδὴ
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 25, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 209 · on 130c
Olympiodorus lecture 25, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 209 · on 130c
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e) · Olympiodorus, lecture 25, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 207–209 (from 130a)
παρήλθομεν διὰ τὸ πολλῆς εἶναι σκέψεως.
ΑΛ.τί τοῦτο;
ΣΩ.ὃ ἄρτι οὕτω πως ἐρρήθη, ὅτι πρῶτον σκεπτέον εἴη αὐτὸ τὸ αὐτό· νῦν δὲ ἀντὶ τοῦ αὐτοῦ αὐτὸ ἕκαστον ἐσκέμμεθα ὅτι ἐστί. καὶ ἴσως ἐξαρκέσει· οὐ γάρ που κυριώτερόν γε οὐδὲν ἂν ἡμῶν αὐτῶν φήσαιμεν ἢ τὴν ψυχήν.
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν καλῶς ἔχει οὕτω νομίζειν, ἐμὲ καὶ σὲ προσομιλεῖν ἀλλήλοις τοῖς λόγοις χρωμένους τῇ ψυχῇ πρὸς τὴν ψυχήν;
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 25, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 209 · on 130d
Olympiodorus lecture 26, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 209–212 · on 130d
Olympiodorus lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 · on 130d–132e
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e) · Olympiodorus, lecture 25, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 207–209 (from 130a)
ΑΛ.πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ΣΩ.τοῦτʼ ἄρα ἦν ὃ καὶ ὀλίγῳ ἔμπροσθεν εἴπομεν, ὅτι Σωκράτης Ἀλκιβιάδῃ διαλέγεται λόγῳ χρώμενος, οὐ πρὸς τὸ σὸν πρόσωπον, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἀλλὰ πρὸς τὸν Ἀλκιβιάδην ποιούμενος τοὺς λόγους· τοῦτο δέ ἐστιν ἡ ψυχή.
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.ψυχὴν ἄρα ἡμᾶς κελεύει γνωρίσαι ὁ ἐπιτάττων γνῶναι ἑαυτόν.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
ΑΛ.ἔοικεν.
ΣΩ.ὅστις ἄρα τῶν τοῦ σώματός τι γιγνώσκει, τὰ αὑτοῦ ἀλλʼ οὐχ αὑτὸν ἔγνωκεν.
ΑΛ.οὕτως.
ΣΩ.οὐδεὶς ἄρα τῶν ἰατρῶν ἑαυτὸν γιγνώσκει, καθʼ ὅσον ἰατρός, οὐδὲ τῶν παιδοτριβῶν, καθʼ ὅσον παιδοτρίβης.
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔοικεν.
ΣΩ.πολλοῦ ἄρα δέουσιν οἱ γεωργοὶ καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι δημιουργοὶ γιγνώσκειν ἑαυτούς. οὐδὲ γὰρ τὰ ἑαυτῶν οὗτοί γε, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἀλλʼ ἔτι πορρωτέρω τῶν ἑαυτῶν κατά γε τὰς
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
τέχνας ἃς ἔχουσιν· τὰ γὰρ τοῦ σώματος γιγνώσκουσιν, οἷς τοῦτο θεραπεύεται.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.εἰ ἄρα σωφροσύνη ἐστὶ τὸ ἑαυτὸν γιγνώσκειν, οὐδεὶς τούτων σώφρων κατὰ τὴν τέχνην.
ΑΛ.οὔ μοι δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.διὰ ταῦτα δὴ καὶ βάναυσοι αὗται αἱ τέχναι δοκοῦσιν εἶναι καὶ οὐκ ἀνδρὸς ἀγαθοῦ μαθήματα.
ΑΛ.πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν πάλιν ὅστις αὖ σῶμα θεραπεύει, τὰ ἑαυτοῦ ἀλλʼ οὐχ αὑτὸν θεραπεύει;
ΑΛ.κινδυνεύει.
ΣΩ.ὅστις δέ γε τὰ χρήματα, οὔθʼ ἑαυτὸν οὔτε τὰ
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
ἑαυτοῦ, ἀλλʼ ἔτι πορρωτέρω τῶν ἑαυτοῦ;
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
ΣΩ.οὐ τὰ αὑτοῦ ἄρα ἔτι πράττει ὁ χρηματιστής.
ΑΛ.ὀρθῶς.
ΣΩ.εἰ ἄρα τις γέγονεν ἐραστὴς τοῦ Ἀλκιβιάδου σώματος, οὐκ Ἀλκιβιάδου ἄρα ἠράσθη ἀλλά τινος τῶν Ἀλκιβιάδου.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.ὅστις δέ σου τῆς ψυχῆς ἐρᾷ;
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη φαίνεται ἐκ τοῦ λόγου.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὁ μὲν τοῦ σώματός σου ἐρῶν, ἐπειδὴ λήγει ἀνθοῦν, ἀπιὼν οἴχεται;
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
ΣΩ.ὁ δέ γε τῆς ψυχῆς ἐρῶν οὐκ ἄπεισιν, ἕως ἂν ἐπὶ τὸ βέλτιον ἴῃ;
ΑΛ.εἰκός γε.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ οὐκ ἀπιὼν ἀλλὰ παραμένων λήγοντος τοῦ σώματος, τῶν ἄλλων ἀπεληλυθότων.
ΑΛ.εὖ γε ποιῶν, ὦ Σώκρατες· καὶ μηδὲ ἀπέλθοις.
ΣΩ.προθυμοῦ τοίνυν ὅτι κάλλιστος εἶναι.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ προθυμήσομαι.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 220 · on 131d
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 220 · on 131d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
ΣΩ.ὡς οὕτω γέ σοι ἔχει· οὔτʼ ἐγένεθʼ, ὡς ἔοικεν, Ἀλκιβιάδῃ τῷ Κλεινίου ἐραστὴς οὔτʼ ἔστιν ἀλλʼ ἢ εἷς μόνος, καὶ οὗτος ἀγαπητός, Σωκράτης ὁ Σωφρονίσκου καὶ Φαιναρέτης.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ἔφησθα σμικρὸν φθῆναί με προσελθόντα σοι, ἐπεὶ πρότερος ἄν μοι προσελθεῖν, βουλόμενος πυθέσθαι διʼ ὅτι μόνος οὐκ ἀπέρχομαι;
ΑΛ.ἦν γὰρ οὕτω.
ΣΩ.τοῦτο τοίνυν αἴτιον, ὅτι μόνος ἐραστὴς ἦν σός, οἱ δʼ ἄλλοι τῶν σῶν· τὰ δὲ σὰ λήγει ὥρας, σὺ δʼ ἄρχῃ ἀνθεῖν.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 220 · on 131e
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 220–221 · on 131e
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 221 · on 131e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
καὶ νῦν γε ἂν μὴ διαφθαρῇς ὑπὸ τοῦ Ἀθηναίων δήμου καὶ αἰσχίων γένῃ, οὐ μή σε ἀπολίπω. τοῦτο γὰρ δὴ μάλιστα ἐγὼ φοβοῦμαι, μὴ δημεραστὴς ἡμῖν γενόμενος διαφθαρῇς· πολλοὶ γὰρ ἤδη καὶ ἀγαθοὶ αὐτὸ πεπόνθασιν Ἀθηναίων. εὐπρόσωπος γὰρ "ὁ τοῦ μεγαλήτορος δῆμος Ἐρεχθέως "· ἀλλʼ ἀποδύντα χρὴ αὐτὸν θεάσασθαι. εὐλαβοῦ οὖν τὴν εὐλάβειαν ἣν ἐγὼ λέγω.
ΑΛ.τίνα;
Readers through the ages · 5
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 221 · on 132a
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 221 · on 132a
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 221 · on 132a
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 221–222 · on 132a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
ΣΩ.γύμνασαι πρῶτον, ὦ μακάριε, καὶ μάθε ἃ δεῖ μαθόντα ἰέναι ἐπὶ τὰ τῆς πόλεως, πρότερον δὲ μή, ἵνʼ ἀλεξιφάρμακα ἔχων ἴῃς καὶ μηδὲν πάθῃς δεινόν.
ΑΛ.εὖ μοι δοκεῖς λέγειν, ὦ Σώκρατες· ἀλλὰ πειρῶ ἐξηγεῖσθαι ὅντινʼ ἂν τρόπον ἐπιμεληθεῖμεν ἡμῶν αὐτῶν.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τοσοῦτον μὲν ἡμῖν εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν πεπέρανται—ὃ γὰρ ἐσμέν, ἐπιεικῶς ὡμολόγηται—ἐφοβούμεθα δὲ μὴ τούτου σφαλέντες λάθωμεν ἑτέρου τινὸς ἐπιμελόμενοι ἀλλʼ οὐχ ἡμῶν.
ΑΛ.ἔστι ταῦτα.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 222 · on 132b
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 222 · on 132b
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 222–223 · on 132b–132c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
ΣΩ.καὶ μετὰ τοῦτο δὴ ὅτι ψυχῆς ἐπιμελητέον καὶ εἰς τοῦτο βλεπτέον.
ΑΛ.δῆλον.
ΣΩ.σωμάτων δὲ καὶ χρημάτων τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν ἑτέροις παραδοτέον.
ΑΛ.τί μήν;
ΣΩ.τίνʼ οὖν ἂν τρόπον γνοῖμεν αὐτὸ ἐναργέστατα; ἐπειδὴ τοῦτο γνόντες, ὡς ἔοικεν, καὶ ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς γνωσόμεθα. ἆρα πρὸς θεῶν εὖ λέγοντος οὗ νυνδὴ ἐμνήσθημεν τοῦ Δελφικοῦ γράμματος οὐ συνίεμεν;
ΑΛ.τὸ ποῖόν τι διανοούμενος λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες;
Readers through the ages · 3
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e) · Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d) · Olympiodorus, lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 222–223 (from 132b)
ΣΩ.ἐγώ σοι φράσω, ὅ γε ὑποπτεύω λέγειν καὶ συμβουλεύειν ἡμῖν τοῦτο τὸ γράμμα. κινδυνεύει γὰρ οὐδὲ πολλαχοῦ εἶναι παράδειγμα αὐτοῦ, ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὴν ὄψιν μόνον.
ΑΛ.πῶς τοῦτο λέγεις;
ΣΩ.σκόπει καὶ σύ. εἰ ἡμῶν τῷ ὄμματι ὥσπερ ἀνθρώπῳ συμβουλεῦον εἶπεν "ἰδὲ σαυτόν, "πῶς ἂν ὑπελάβομεν τί παραινεῖν; ἆρα οὐχὶ εἰς τοῦτο βλέπειν, εἰς ὃ βλέπων ὁ ὀφθαλμὸς ἔμελλεν αὑτὸν ἰδεῖν;
ΑΛ.δῆλον.
ΣΩ.ἐννοῶμεν δὴ εἰς τί βλέποντες τῶν ὄντων ἐκεῖνό
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 223 · on 132d
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e) · Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
τε ὁρῷμεν ἅμα ἂν καὶ ἡμᾶς αὐτούς;
ΑΛ.δῆλον δή, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅτι εἰς κάτοπτρά τε καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα.
ΣΩ.ὀρθῶς λέγεις. οὐκοῦν καὶ τῷ ὀφθαλμῷ ᾧ ὁρῶμεν ἔνεστί τι τῶν τοιούτων;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἐννενόηκας οὖν ὅτι τοῦ ἐμβλέποντος εἰς τὸν
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 27, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 223 · on 132e
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e) · Olympiodorus, lecture 27, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 213–220 (from 130d)
ὀφθαλμὸν τὸ πρόσωπον ἐμφαίνεται ἐν τῇ τοῦ καταντικρὺ ὄψει ὥσπερ ἐν κατόπτρῳ, ὃ δὴ καὶ κόρην καλοῦμεν, εἴδωλον ὄν τι τοῦ ἐμβλέποντος;
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.ὀφθαλμὸς ἄρα ὀφθαλμὸν θεώμενος, καὶ ἐμβλέπων εἰς τοῦτο ὅπερ βέλτιστον αὐτοῦ καὶ ᾧ ὁρᾷ, οὕτως ἂν αὑτὸν ἴδοι.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.εἰ δέ γʼ εἰς ἄλλο τῶν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου βλέποι ἤ τι τῶν ὄντων, πλὴν εἰς ἐκεῖνο ᾧ τοῦτο τυγχάνει ὅμοιον, οὐκ ὄψεται ἑαυτόν.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e)
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.ὀφθαλμὸς ἄρʼ εἰ μέλλει ἰδεῖν αὑτόν, εἰς ὀφθαλμὸν αὐτῷ βλεπτέον, καὶ τοῦ ὄμματος εἰς ἐκεῖνον τὸν τόπον ἐν ᾧ τυγχάνει ἡ ὀφθαλμοῦ ἀρετὴ ἐγγιγνομένη· ἔστι δὲ τοῦτό που ὄψις;
ΑΛ.οὕτως.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν, ὦ φίλε Ἀλκιβιάδη, καὶ ψυχὴ εἰ μέλλει γνώσεσθαι αὑτήν, εἰς ψυχὴν αὐτῇ βλεπτέον, καὶ μάλιστʼ εἰς τοῦτον αὐτῆς τὸν τόπον ἐν ᾧ ἐγγίγνεται ἡ ψυχῆς ἀρετή, σοφία, καὶ εἰς ἄλλο ᾧ τοῦτο τυγχάνει ὅμοιον ὄν;
ΑΛ.ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e)
ΣΩ.ἔχομεν οὖν εἰπεῖν ὅτι ἐστὶ τῆς ψυχῆς θειότερον ἢ τοῦτο, περὶ ὃ τὸ εἰδέναι τε καὶ φρονεῖν ἐστιν;
ΑΛ.οὐκ ἔχομεν.
ΣΩ.τῷ θεῷ ἄρα τοῦτʼ ἔοικεν αὐτῆς, καί τις εἰς τοῦτο βλέπων καὶ πᾶν τὸ θεῖον γνούς, θεόν τε καὶ φρόνησιν, οὕτω καὶ ἑαυτὸν ἂν γνοίη μάλιστα.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν, ὅθʼ ὥσπερ κάτοπτρά ἐστι σαφέστερα τοῦ ἐν τῷ ὀφθαλμῷ ἐνόπτρου καὶ καθαρώτερα καὶ λαμπρότερα, οὕτω καὶ ὁ θεὸς τοῦ ἐν τῇ ἡμετέρᾳ ψυχῇ βελτίστου καθαρώτερόν τε καὶ λαμπρότερον τυγχάνει ὄν;
ΑΛ.ἔοικέ γε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.εἰς τὸν θεὸν ἄρα βλέποντες ἐκείνῳ καλλίστῳ ἐνόπτρῳ χρῴμεθʼ ἂν καὶ τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων εἰς τὴν ψυχῆς ἀρετήν, καὶ οὕτως ἂν μάλιστα ὁρῷμεν καὶ γιγνώσκοιμεν ἡμᾶς αὐτούς.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τὸ δὲ γιγνώσκειν αὑτὸν ὡμολογοῦμεν σωφροσύνην εἶναι;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἆρʼ οὖν μὴ γιγνώσκοντες ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς μηδὲ σώφρονες ὄντες δυναίμεθʼ ἂν εἰδέναι τὰ ἡμέτερα αὐτῶν κακά τε καὶ ἀγαθά;
ΑΛ.καὶ πῶς ἂν τοῦτο γένοιτο, ὦ Σώκρατες;
⟨ 133c8–17 ⟩ These lines are not in Plato's medieval manuscripts. Burnet prints them, in angle brackets, from Eusebius (Praeparatio evangelica XI.27.5), and notes that Julian and Stobaeus read something like them; Stobaeus (Anthologium III.21.24) gives a version of them a little later in the conversation, after "we agreed that knowing oneself is self-control". The reader marks them ⟨ ⟩ as Burnet does: words supplied from an indirect witness, not an editor's deletion. Neither Jowett nor Lamb translates them; Taylor (1804) does, in square brackets, from Stobaeus and at Stobaeus' place in the conversation (see the Sydenham–Taylor layer). The English below is AI.
SOC. Then, just as mirrors are clearer than the mirror in the eye, and purer and brighter, is the god also purer and brighter than the best part of our soul? — ALC. It seems so, Socrates. — SOC. Then it is by looking at the god that we would use the finest mirror, and, among human things, at the excellence of the soul; and so, most of all, we would see and know ourselves. — ALC. Yes.
AIReaders through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 · on 133c–135e
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 227 · on 133c
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 227–282 · on 133c
Also on this section: Marsilio Ficino, the argumentum (epitome) before his Latin translation (from 129e)
ΣΩ.ἀδύνατον γὰρ ἴσως σοι φαίνεται μὴ γιγνώσκοντα Ἀλκιβιάδην τὰ Ἀλκιβιάδου γιγνώσκειν ὅτι Ἀλκιβιάδου ἐστίν.
ΑΛ.ἀδύνατον μέντοι νὴ Δία.
ΣΩ.οὐδʼ ἄρα τὰ ἡμέτερα ὅτι ἡμέτερα, εἰ μηδʼ ἡμᾶς αὐτούς;
ΑΛ.πῶς γάρ;
ΣΩ.εἰ δʼ ἄρα μηδὲ τὰ ἡμέτερα, οὐδὲ τὰ τῶν ἡμετέρων;
ΑΛ.οὐ φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα πάνυ τι ὀρθῶς ὡμολογοῦμεν ὁμολογοῦντες ἄρτι εἶναί τινας οἳ ἑαυτοὺς μὲν οὐ γιγνώσκουσιν, τὰ δʼ αὑτῶν, ἄλλους δὲ τὰ τῶν ἑαυτῶν. ἔοικε γὰρ πάντα ταῦτα εἶναι
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 282 · on 133d
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 282 · on 133d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
κατιδεῖν ἑνός τε καὶ μιᾶς τέχνης, αὑτόν, τὰ αὑτοῦ, τὰ τῶν ἑαυτοῦ.
ΑΛ.κινδυνεύει.
ΣΩ.ὅστις δὲ τὰ αὑτοῦ ἀγνοεῖ, καὶ τὰ τῶν ἄλλων που ἂν ἀγνοοῖ κατὰ ταὐτά.
ΑΛ.τί μήν;
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν εἰ τὰ τῶν ἄλλων, καὶ τὰ τῶν πόλεων ἀγνοήσει.
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρʼ ἂν γένοιτο ὁ τοιοῦτος ἀνὴρ πολιτικός.
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.οὐ μὴν οὐδʼ οἰκονομικός γε.
Readers through the ages · 4
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 282 · on 133e
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 282 · on 133e
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 282 · on 133e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ΑΛ.οὐ δῆτα.
ΣΩ.οὐδέ γε εἴσεται ὅτι πράττει.
ΑΛ.οὐ γὰρ οὖν.
ΣΩ.ὁ δὲ μὴ εἰδὼς οὐχ ἁμαρτήσεται;
ΑΛ.πάνυ γε.
ΣΩ.ἐξαμαρτάνων δὲ οὐ κακῶς πράξει ἰδίᾳ τε καὶ δημοσίᾳ;
ΑΛ.πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ΣΩ.κακῶς δὲ πράττων οὐκ ἄθλιος;
ΑΛ.σφόδρα γε.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ οἷς οὗτος πράττει;
ΑΛ.καὶ οὗτοι.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα οἷόν τε, ἐὰν μή τις σώφρων καὶ ἀγαθὸς ᾖ, εὐδαίμονα εἶναι.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 282–229 · on 134a
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ΑΛ.οὐχ οἷόν τε.
ΣΩ.οἱ ἄρα κακοὶ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἄθλιοι.
ΑΛ.σφόδρα γε.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα οὐδʼ ὁ πλουτήσας ἀθλιότητος ἀπαλλάττεται, ἀλλʼ ὁ σωφρονήσας.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα τειχῶν οὐδὲ τριήρων οὐδὲ νεωρίων δέονται αἱ πόλεις, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, εἰ μέλλουσιν εὐδαιμονήσειν, οὐδὲ πλήθους οὐδὲ μεγέθους ἄνευ ἀρετῆς.
ΑΛ.οὐ μέντοι.
ΣΩ.εἰ δὴ μέλλεις τὰ τῆς πόλεως πράξειν ὀρθῶς καὶ
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 229 · on 134b
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 229 · on 134b
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
καλῶς, ἀρετῆς σοι μεταδοτέον τοῖς πολίταις.
ΑΛ.πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΣΩ.δύναιτο δʼ ἄν τις μεταδιδόναι ὃ μὴ ἔχοι;
ΑΛ.καὶ πῶς;
ΣΩ.αὐτῷ ἄρα σοὶ πρῶτον κτητέον ἀρετήν, καὶ ἄλλῳ ὃς μέλλει μὴ ἰδίᾳ μόνον αὑτοῦ τε καὶ τῶν αὑτοῦ ἄρξειν καὶ ἐπιμελήσεσθαι, ἀλλὰ πόλεως καὶ τῶν τῆς πόλεως.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα ἐξουσίαν σοι οὐδʼ ἀρχὴν παρασκευαστέον σαυτῷ ποιεῖν ὅτι ἂν βούλῃ, οὐδὲ τῇ πόλει, ἀλλὰ δικαιοσύνην καὶ σωφροσύνην.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 229 · on 134c
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 229 · on 134c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ΣΩ.δικαίως μὲν γὰρ πράττοντες καὶ σωφρόνως σύ τε καὶ ἡ πόλις θεοφιλῶς πράξετε.
ΑΛ.εἰκός γε.
ΣΩ.καὶ ὅπερ γε ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἐλέγομεν, εἰς τὸ θεῖον καὶ λαμπρὸν ὁρῶντες πράξετε.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μὴν ἐνταῦθά γε βλέποντες ὑμᾶς τε αὐτοὺς καὶ τὰ ὑμέτερα ἀγαθὰ κατόψεσθε καὶ γνώσεσθε.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὀρθῶς τε καὶ εὖ πράξετε;
ΑΛ.ναί.
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer pp. 229–230 · on 134d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ΣΩ.ἀλλὰ μὴν οὕτω γε πράττοντας ὑμᾶς ἐθέλω ἐγγυήσασθαι ἦ μὴν εὐδαιμονήσειν.
ΑΛ.ἀσφαλὴς γὰρ εἶ ἐγγυητής.
ΣΩ.ἀδίκως δέ γε πράττοντες, εἰς τὸ ἄθεον καὶ σκοτεινὸν βλέποντες, ὡς τὰ εἰκότα, ὅμοια τούτοις πράξετε ἀγνοοῦντες ὑμᾶς αὐτούς.
ΑΛ.ἔοικεν.
ΣΩ.ὧι γὰρ ἄν, ὦ φίλε Ἀλκιβιάδη, ἐξουσία μὲν ᾖ ποιεῖν ὃ βούλεται, νοῦν δὲ μὴ ἔχῃ, τί τὸ εἰκὸς συμβαίνειν, ἰδιώτῃ ἢ καὶ πόλει; οἷον νοσοῦντι ἐξουσίας οὔσης δρᾶν ὃ
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 230 · on 134e
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 230 · on 134e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
βούλεται, νοῦν ἰατρικὸν μὴ ἔχοντι, τυραννοῦντι δὲ ὡς μηδὲν ἐπιπλήττοι τις αὐτῷ, τί τὸ συμβησόμενον; ἆρʼ οὐχ, ὡς τὸ εἰκός, διαφθαρῆναι τὸ σῶμα;
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.τί δʼ ἐν νηί, εἴ τῳ ἐξουσία εἴη ποιεῖν ὃ δοκεῖ, νοῦ τε καὶ ἀρετῆς κυβερνητικῆς ἐστερημένῳ, καθορᾷς ἃ ἂν συμβαίη αὐτῷ τε καὶ τοῖς συνναύταις;
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε, ὅτι γε ἀπόλοιντο πάντες ἄν.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν ὡσαύτως ἐν πόλει τε καὶ πάσαις ἀρχαῖς καὶ
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ἐξουσίαις ἀπολειπομέναις ἀρετῆς ἕπεται τὸ κακῶς πράττειν;
ΑΛ.ἀνάγκη.
ΣΩ.οὐκ ἄρα τυραννίδα χρή, ὦ ἄριστε Ἀλκιβιάδη, παρασκευάζεσθαι οὔθʼ αὑτῷ οὔτε τῇ πόλει, εἰ μέλλετε εὐδαιμονεῖν, ἀλλʼ ἀρετήν.
ΑΛ.ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΣΩ.πρὶν δέ γε ἀρετὴν ἔχειν, τὸ ἄρχεσθαι ἄμεινον ὑπὸ τοῦ βελτίονος ἢ τὸ ἄρχειν ἀνδρί, οὐ μόνον παιδί.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν τό γʼ ἄμεινον καὶ κάλλιον;
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.τὸ δὲ κάλλιον πρεπωδέστερον;
Readers through the ages · 1
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ΑΛ.πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ΣΩ.πρέπει ἄρα τῷ κακῷ δουλεύειν· ἄμεινον γάρ.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.δουλοπρεπὲς ἄρʼ ἡ κακία.
ΑΛ.φαίνεται.
ΣΩ.ἐλευθεροπρεπὲς δὲ ἡ ἀρετή.
ΑΛ.ναί.
ΣΩ.οὐκοῦν φεύγειν χρή, ὦ ἑταῖρε, τὴν δουλοπρέπειαν;
ΑΛ.μάλιστά γε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.αἰσθάνῃ δὲ νῦν πῶς ἔχεις; ἐλευθεροπρεπῶς ἢ οὔ;
ΑΛ.δοκῶ μοι καὶ μάλα σφόδρα αἰσθάνεσθαι.
ΣΩ.οἶσθʼ οὖν πῶς ἀποφεύξῃ τοῦτο τὸ περὶ σὲ νῦν; ἵνα μὴ ὀνομάζωμεν αὐτὸ ἐπὶ καλῷ ἀνδρί,
Readers through the ages · 2
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 232 · on 135c
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ΑΛ.ἔγωγε.
ΣΩ.πῶς;
ΑΛ.ἐὰν βούλῃ σύ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ΣΩ.οὐ καλῶς λέγεις, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ πῶς χρὴ λέγειν;
ΣΩ.ὅτι ἐὰν θεὸς ἐθέλῃ.
ΑΛ.λέγω δή. καὶ πρὸς τούτοις μέντοι τόδε λέγω, ὅτι κινδυνεύσομεν μεταβαλεῖν τὸ σχῆμα, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸ μὲν σὸν ἐγώ, σὺ δὲ τοὐμόν· οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ὅπως οὐ παιδαγωγήσω σε ἀπὸ τῆσδε τῆς ἡμέρας, σὺ δʼ ὑπʼ ἐμοῦ παιδαγωγήσῃ.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 232 · on 135d
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 232 · on 135d
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
ΣΩ.ὦ γενναῖε, πελαργοῦ ἄρα ὁ ἐμὸς ἔρως οὐδὲν διοίσει, εἰ παρὰ σοὶ ἐννεοττεύσας ἔρωτα ὑπόπτερον ὑπὸ τούτου πάλιν θεραπεύσεται.
ΑΛ.ἀλλὰ οὕτως ἔχει, καὶ ἄρξομαί γε ἐντεῦθεν τῆς δικαιοσύνης ἐπιμέλεσθαι.
ΣΩ.βουλοίμην ἄν σε καὶ διατελέσαι· ὀρρωδῶ δέ, οὔ τι τῇ σῇ φύσει ἀπιστῶν, ἀλλὰ τὴν τῆς πόλεως ὁρῶν ῥώμην, μὴ ἐμοῦ τε καὶ σοῦ κρατήσῃ.
Readers through the ages · 3
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 232 · on 135e
Olympiodorus lecture 28, on the words quoted; Creuzer p. 232 · on 135e
Also on this section: Olympiodorus, lecture 28, θεωρία, the general discussion; Creuzer pp. 224–227 (from 133c)
Greek: Burnet's Oxford text as digitised by Perseus (CC BY-SA 4.0). Lemmas and morphology: GLAUx, automatic (CC BY-SA 4.0), a few corrected and listed on the About page. The English translations are public domain (each says where and why on the About page). Word glosses are AI and marked. This page is share-alike: the Perseus, GLAUx, LSJ and Wiktionary layers are CC BY-SA. How this text was established.